ALS Ice Bucket Challenge

Re: ALS Ice Bucket Challenge

Postby FZR1KG » Sat Aug 30, 2014 4:37 am

Accountability & Transparency


We account or every cent of donations that we get.
We are totally transparent, we fully admit that we use 99.9999999999999% of donated money for wages, 50% for the CEO and the rest divided down in according to position.
We have 100% accountability and transparency.
We get the highest scores in charity watch groups.

Just the road I see charities going down. Some of which are already there.
As SFC says' they give under 30% of donations to the cause. The rest is in management.
That's not a charity organisation by any stretch. They can't even claim 50% or more goes in to charity.
The majority goes to management.
That's just a business that donates 30% of their profits to charity but their profits are just donations.
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Re: ALS Ice Bucket Challenge

Postby SciFi Chick » Sat Aug 30, 2014 4:39 am

Everything the site I linked posted is true. I've checked the actual ALS website. If you take a look at this document, you will see that the CEO makes $142,000 a year. I have a problem with that. I may be in the minority. And that's just one example.
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Re: ALS Ice Bucket Challenge

Postby SciFiFisher » Sat Aug 30, 2014 4:53 am

SciFi Chick wrote:Everything the site I linked posted is true. I've checked the actual ALS website. If you take a look at this document, you will see that the CEO makes $142,000 a year. I have a problem with that. I may be in the minority. And that's just one example.


If the CEO really is only making $142,000 per year he is one of the lowest paid CEO's in the world. :shock:
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Re: ALS Ice Bucket Challenge

Postby geonuc » Sat Aug 30, 2014 10:34 am

SciFiFisher wrote:
SciFi Chick wrote:Everything the site I linked posted is true. I've checked the actual ALS website. If you take a look at this document, you will see that the CEO makes $142,000 a year. I have a problem with that. I may be in the minority. And that's just one example.


If the CEO really is only making $142,000 per year he is one of the lowest paid CEO's in the world. :shock:


Yeah, that's not an outrageous salary for a CEO of a large organization.
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Re: ALS Ice Bucket Challenge

Postby SciFiFisher » Sat Aug 30, 2014 2:55 pm

According the PDF the CEO,Jane H Gilbert, earns $362,458 in compensation from the ALS organization. According to the salary site (payscale) the range for a CEO in the U.S. is $71,287 - $404,468 USD. Of course, we all know about the corporations with compensation in the millions. But if you just look at the averages she falls within the range. Considering that ALS has chapters in every state she is running a national and quite possibly an international organization. So, her compensation isn't all that outrageous.

Most charity organizations are considered to be doing good if they spend 80% of the money donated directly or indirectly for the cause they support. ALS spends almost 73% of all their money on "program expenses" i.e. trying find a cure or supporting people who have the disease. They could stand to improve that percentage.

At the end of the day you can decide that they don't quite cut the mustard. But, when compared to charities that spend as little as 10% on programs they raise money for ALS certainly isn't an outrageous organization. Hell, they don't even pay their CEO 1% of what they bring in. :P
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Re: ALS Ice Bucket Challenge

Postby Rommie » Sat Aug 30, 2014 6:07 pm

Sorry, but I really don't have an issue with ALS or find the way they spend their money disappointing, and think it smaks more that cynical people out there want to find something "wrong" with them than anything actually wrong with the organization. It's not uncommon for foundations for such diseases to have multiple mission goals beyond research at all, and often the needs of the community affected by these diseases are addressed through them.

Another one that comes to mind immediately looking at the budget btw is education is a big one. I assure you right now if my own field of astronomy spent 100% of our money on research (and boy would we love a mere 7% admin costs) but none on education it's a good way to dry up future research funds.

Finally yeah, that is a really low CEO salary as attracting top talent is expensive, and depending where s(he) lives (I'm thinking likely DC metro area or other really expensive city is highly likely) not really much at all. Why should working for a nonprofit automatically mean s(he) can't afford rent and to raise a family?

For perspective, we can all go complain instead about the CEO of Memorial Sloan-Kettering making $2.2 million, fuck them. :P
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Re: ALS Ice Bucket Challenge

Postby FZR1KG » Sat Aug 30, 2014 6:22 pm

*** Rommie snuck in ***

With that mentality, the POTUS should have a salary in the billions, I mean look he runs the whole country and all the corporations that are in it.

If taking way more than you should is a moral failing, then the argument boils down to comparing thieves, she isn't bad, she steals less than others do. Of course, she would is stealing it from peoples good will and intentions and that should make it a bigger deal.

The fact that CEO's currently get outrageous packages doesn't mean we have to think, well, it's not as outrageous as some.
As though that's some great thing noble act.

As for the notion of takes a large salary to attract top talent, that IMHO is just an over abused myth.
CEO positions are usually kept in house by people who know each other or part of a family structure.
It's still a very much closed shop compared with other work and it's not talent based it's relationship based.
Who you know rather than what you know.

Anyway, if it's all about top talent, then lets start paying the people that are in the space programs millions of dollars.
Oh, we can't do that, they apparently aren't talented enough...see how that works. :P

If it isn't a necessity for other positions, then it's not here either. It's a rumor propagated by those with self interest.
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Re: ALS Ice Bucket Challenge

Postby Sigma_Orionis » Sun Aug 31, 2014 1:14 am

Ok. you have a problem with lavish CEO salaries, but that's not the point.

Why don't I think that is the point? Because the claim the news article makes is that they're pocketing or wasting 70% of the money they raise, and to prove their point they put a graph with no explanation and throw some red meat regarding the ALS' exec salaries. Which is guaranteed to make everyone see red because everyone is on edge about that after hearing how the Wall Street SOBs that got everyone in the current economic morass are compensated for screwing everybody.

Are the ALS execs being payed too much? I don't know,

I also don't know how a charity is run or what are the proportions they have to have to work as one. However, the ALS Association apparently also has a lot of ALS related projects in education and direct patient care. So 79 % of the money they raise goes to causes they claim to support, including research. And two other charity watchdogs also give them good marks (not top marks, so sure, you can argue that the proportion should be higher).

So, what's the beef? are they taking good people's money and misusing it? (which apparently it is not true) or is it that they pay too much for their execs?.
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Re: ALS Ice Bucket Challenge

Postby FZR1KG » Sun Aug 31, 2014 4:06 pm

http://www.alsa.org/assets/pdfs/form-20 ... 1-2014.pdf

Total people being paid: 8
Total salary: 1.8million

Total revenue for 2012 = 17million
Total revenue for 2013 = 20 million

Salary is 10% of all donations in 2012
Salary is 9% of all donations in 2013
Don't forget, this is only for EIGHT people!

Research % in 2012 = 7%
Research % in 2013 = ?? can't find on their site as it's not stored. Did search on 2013 FYE, form 990 etc. Transparent seems relative here.

As for many of the charity watch groups, they are pay for information services. Can no one working in charity actually do it for the charity?
Do they all have to make a dollar?

IOW, they spend more on their salaries than on research.
Now in 2014 they changed that.
The track record however prior that was pretty poor.
To top it off their mission statement:
Established in 1985, The ALS Association is the only national non-profit organization fighting Lou Gehrig’s Disease on every front. By leading the way in global research, providing assistance for people with ALS through a nationwide network of chapters, coordinating multidisciplinary care through certified clinical care centers, and fostering government partnerships, The Association builds hope and enhances quality of life while aggressively searching for new treatments and a cure.


Their mission statement highlights twice their commitment to research but their eight (yes that is correct) 8 paid staff took more home than they donated to research.
That's deception at best, downright lying at worst.

Also I'll stress again, this is a charity not a "for profit".
I expect the staff at charities to get less salary that high flyer staff that run most industries, not be in the same ball park.

So lets compare how they are judged by a jury of their peers: Non profit salary average for over 7000 people

Average CEO pay for a NON PROFIT in the USA = 100k
ALS, $350K
90% percentile $210k

Blows away the competition by far, in fact, their highest reproted income was less than the ALS CEO's salary.

When staff take more than they give to research, and claim that they are a leaders in research and it is a fundamental goal of the company, then that is a problem. Their salary is taking over 50% of what they invest into research.

Maybe they need to rewrite it: "Compensation for our eight paid staff is a fundamental goal of the company since 1985. Please help keep our families fed and we'll donate about the same as we take to ALS research. Aren't we just precious!"


Q.E.D.

If you don't see the problem with the above, then I guess we'll just agree to disagree.

***edit***
I don't mean to sound snarky. I just have limited time to devote to this so am blurting it out thick and fast so I can get back to the disaster that I am in the middle of at the moment.
Last edited by FZR1KG on Sun Aug 31, 2014 4:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ALS Ice Bucket Challenge

Postby FZR1KG » Sun Aug 31, 2014 4:35 pm

SciFiFisher wrote:According the PDF the CEO,Jane H Gilbert, earns $362,458 in compensation from the ALS organization. According to the salary site (payscale) the range for a CEO in the U.S. is $71,287 - $404,468 USD. Of course, we all know about the corporations with compensation in the millions. But if you just look at the averages she falls within the range. Considering that ALS has chapters in every state she is running a national and quite possibly an international organization. So, her compensation isn't all that outrageous.



Apples to oranges comparison, you've made.
Pay scale for CEO's of NON PROFITS, we must check.
Yoda voice you like?

See post above for that comparison. Kind of changes things a bit I think.
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Re: ALS Ice Bucket Challenge

Postby FZR1KG » Sun Aug 31, 2014 5:12 pm

List of really efficient charities: forbes list of efficient charities

Many are 100%.
IOW, all volunteer and they get way more than the ALS Foundation does in terms of donations so you'd expect them to pay their CEO's a lot of money, but, they are charities, not for profit.
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Re: ALS Ice Bucket Challenge

Postby Rommie » Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:55 pm

They addressed the claims made here. Relevant quote:

The salaries of our executive staff are in line with the job markets where they are located—and in line with those of other national charities. Salary review is part of the accreditation process for the watch dogs mentioned above and is a requirement of the National Health Council (NHC), of which we are a member. In fact, The ALS Association is the only ALS charity that has qualified for membership. Read what this journalist has to say about The ALS Association’s executive salaries: “they are all well within the range of nonprofit salaries; the compensation for ALSA’s CEO compares favorably with that of his peers, including some who run low-performing nonprofits.”


Also, all volunteer is nice for a charity if you can have a bunch of stay at home moms with time to burn. If you can afford to volunteer your time, that's great, but not feasible for many nonprofits. However, I don't see why that means those who work for them shouldn't be able to afford rent.

I'm still not sure just what the rest of your longer post is on compared to the points I pointed out earlier, so just not gonna touch 'em. ;)
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Re: ALS Ice Bucket Challenge

Postby FZR1KG » Sun Aug 31, 2014 9:30 pm

Eight staff, 1.8 Million in salary.
They must have expensive taste in rent.

Stay home moms are apparently better at running charities with far bigger budgets and more people: Efficient Charities :p


I looked at their responses to critics.
They claim "in line" when their CEO takes almost 3 times the average (that's according to the site they used as support for their salary, health charities average $137k).
They then compared their salaries to 10 high paid CEO's of lower earning charities, seemingly oblivious to the fact that's not a good thing.
So, their response to their high salaries is spin rather than transparent.
A legitimate response would be: We understand that we take almost three times the average salary for this type of charity, but the reasons for that are: bla bla bla.

Then let the public decide.

In any case, we have a problem with 8 people earning more than the charity gave to research till recently and the spin they are putting out.
If you guys don't, then that's up to you.
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Re: ALS Ice Bucket Challenge

Postby Sigma_Orionis » Sun Aug 31, 2014 11:40 pm

Zee I don't know where you got your numbers from, I got them from their site. Their financial statements are audited independently by these guys, so if the ALS folks bribed their auditor, which of course is not unheard of (Enron did it, plenty of financial institutions did it before the 2008 crash) I presume they did a good job massaging the numbers.

I made a table based on those numbers (the hash signs are my attempt to line up the table because phpBB eats the extra spaces)

The statements used were for the fiscal years ending on January 31 2012,2013 and 2014. the 2012 statement has a comparison with the 2011 statement. This gives us an idea of their expenses from the year 2010 till December 2013.

#########################2010 2011 2012 2013
########Research#########21.50 25.30 25.70 27.40
########Patient Care######27.80 30.00 19.60 19.40
########Education########13.80 12.00 34.50 32.30
Total Operations############63.10 67.30 79.80 79.10
########Fundraising#######23.80 21.20 11.70 13.60
########Administration####13.10 11.50 8.50 7.30
Total Support#############36.90 32.70 20.20 20.90
Grand Total##############100.00 100.00 100.00 100.00

As you can see, Research Grants alone range from 21.5% in 2010 to 27.4% in 2013, I don't think they cleaned up their act, simply that ALS (aka Lou Gherig's disease) research was stagnant before 2011. if you check up the history of the disease the only major breakthrough in the 160 years since that disease was identified came in 2011 and for better or worse, the ALS Association (along with plenty of other institutions) has bragging rights on it because they contributed to the funding of that piece of research.

Now that's less than 30% of their assets, where do the rest of those go?

According to their Wikipedia Entry they not only fund research, they also provide tons of seminars for researchers and run a nation wide network of clinics and support groups for the patients and their families (do remember that this disease is a chronic disease with no cure, so the people who suffer from it need to be taken care of for life).

The "Support" part of their expenses are Fund-raising and Administration. Now, the support part of their expenses has been steadily shrinking since 2010, although it had a slight increase in 2013 because their fund-raising expenses rose, the Administration section (which I presume that it includes the salaries of those 8 people) has been steadily decreasing since 2010.

Now those 8 people not only hold fund raisers, they have to manage a nation wide network of centers and I presume, coordinate lots of seminars. Are their worth their salt? NO IDEA (I have very little sympathy for upper management in general, so I am trying NOT to let that influence my opinion). But up till now, the only thing I can blame them for, is having a "narrow" mission statement.
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Re: ALS Ice Bucket Challenge

Postby Rommie » Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:42 am

By the way, I got "challenged" last night by a friend.

As I have no urge to dump water on my head, I think I'm just going to pick out one of my favorite charities and cut them a check. Plus hey, by this point it's totally passe. :P
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