Coronavirus

[Rommie]

Definitely yes on both. On the bright side it sounds like your mom and dad would be among the first getting it.

Also, I thought this from an expert in the field was worth a read to get an understanding of the vaccines- https://twitter.com/florian_krammer/sta ... 05090?s=20

It sounds like several vaccines also pretty advanced right now are quite similar to this one, and I imagine those aren't too far behind. One good thing about an uncontrolled pandemic is a lot of your test subjects are going to catch it.

[pumpkinpi]

Thanks. I look forward to reading that.

[pumpkinpi]

Ugh. Covid is creeping ever closer. Cases at my kids' school, rooster's dance studio, and a family member of one of buster's soccer teammates. I fear it's inevitable unless we pull the kids out of activities. I don't want to make that choice, but soon it could be made for me.

MN has tighter restrictions starting tomorrow, aimed at the places young millennials/old gen z's are gathering unsafely, based on state outbreaks. Bars have to close by 10, fewer people allowed at weddings and funerals, and no private gatherings (indoor or out!) of more than 10 people.

[lady_*nix]

*wishes you luck, and worries*

It's disturbing to me how like... bare minimum those new restrictions are.

Here in MA they still have dine-in restaurants open during the day. R(t) is 1.21 last I checked, uncontrolled spread. At least people have mostly stopped being stupid about masks, but like... maybe it's a bad idea to have dine-in facilities open for randos? Maybe we should lock it down again, just a little, instead of leaving everything up to the free market or whatever? Maybe we should, like, have a state-level stimulus package so that people can survive, instead of waiting for the federal govt to fail us again?

Anyway, I was getting into slightly less paranoid habits, and now I'm amping the paranoia back up again. The really annoying thing though is like... "Not paranoid" for me was wearing just my glasses without safety goggles over them, wiping down just my phone after ventures outside instead of phone, keys, and wallet. "Not paranoid" was staying in a hotel for 3 days when one of my roomies became unsafe to be around, keeping two masks on at all times outside my hotel room. "Not paranoid" was ordering out for dinner when low on energy/groceries, instead of making something that wouldn't be ready for 2 hours. But walking out on errands I see all these young dudes in restaurants, tucking in, and I'm like... Hey guys, what are you thinking exactly? I'd joke about young people feeling immortal but I literally can't recall a day in my life I felt that immortal, so I honestly just don't understand it.

[pumpkinpi]

*wishes you luck, and worries*

It's disturbing to me how like... bare minimum those new restrictions are.

Here in MA they still have dine-in restaurants open during the day. R(t) is 1.21 last I checked, uncontrolled spread. At least people have mostly stopped being stupid about masks, but like... maybe it's a bad idea to have dine-in facilities open for randos? Maybe we should lock it down again, just a little, instead of leaving everything up to the free market or whatever? Maybe we should, like, have a state-level stimulus package so that people can survive, instead of waiting for the federal govt to fail us again?

Yes to all this.

Anyway, I was getting into slightly less paranoid habits, and now I'm amping the paranoia back up again. The really annoying thing though is like... "Not paranoid" for me was wearing just my glasses without safety goggles over them, wiping down just my phone after ventures outside instead of phone, keys, and wallet. "Not paranoid" was staying in a hotel for 3 days when one of my roomies became unsafe to be around, keeping two masks on at all times outside my hotel room. "Not paranoid" was ordering out for dinner when low on energy/groceries, instead of making something that wouldn't be ready for 2 hours. But walking out on errands I see all these young dudes in restaurants, tucking in, and I'm like... Hey guys, what are you thinking exactly? I'd joke about young people feeling immortal but I literally can't recall a day in my life I felt that immortal, so I honestly just don't understand it.

In these times, paranoia is a virtue. You're doing your part to keep yourself and other safe.

[Rommie]

It's pretty clear to me at least that the reason MA isn't locking down again is we just can't afford it without some sort of federal assistance. The state is already in the hole from this year and they can't get more so per the law, so while I'm pretty sure we'll be where we were in spring in two shakes of a lamb's tail people will legit not be able to put food on the table. I definitely also think a lockdown when we face the inevitable is going to be primarily on things like "no dining" over "all stores must shut" even when we get one, for the aforementioned reason- plus from an epidemiologist's perspective we now know those aren't the same vectors.

(We already have those regulations in place btw pumpkinpi- you basically can't get alcohol anywhere after 9:30pm for example as all the bars/restaurants/convenience stores are closed. Don't think it's mattering much.)

This is probably selfish of me to admit btw, but I just really hope that I can keep going into work even if we get back into some sort of lockdown. I've just really come to appreciate having the routine of going somewhere, it's an amazing setup with my office and I never see anyone (1-2 other people on the hall on any given day, still no other women so I get the bathroom to myself, and everyone's masked if outside the office), and the weekly tests are great. It's definitely low risk environment, versus WFH makes me feel really adrift, but of course it's not essential I be here. But with the weekly test regime, I hope they'll let the handful of us here stay and it just comes down to whether anyone gets positive eventually.

[lady_*nix]

@Rommie

Oh gods, I didn't know MA was that badly off as far as budget. That's... extra terrifying because we can expect exactly jack and shit from the Trump admin.

*shudders*

This fucking year. This fucking administration.

[Rommie]

Well, I mean, all states are- they're not designed to suddenly hand out mass employment and subsidies because states cannot run a deficit. The federal government of course can, but won't. That's definitely a huge part of it.

[code monkey]

yes, the vaccine news is exciting - 90% efficacy! - but we must maintain a sense of proportion.

1. manufacture and distribution will be difficult. it must be maintained at -70C. the suggestion is that it not be taken above that for > 1 minute. yes, Pfizer is working at special packaging and making the freezers available but still …
2. one must receive 2 doses
3. the trial must run longer to allow for the collection of the required safety data


nonetheless this is a start. a good start. and no I have no stock options.

[SciFiFisher]

yes, the vaccine news is exciting - 90% efficacy! - but we must maintain a sense of proportion.

1. manufacture and distribution will be difficult. it must be maintained at -70C. the suggestion is that it not be taken above that for > 1 minute. yes, Pfizer is working at special packaging and making the freezers available but still …
2. one must receive 2 doses
3. the trial must run longer to allow for the collection of the required safety data


nonetheless this is a start. a good start. and no I have no stock options.

Yikes! They are also saying it will probably be one of those annual things like the flu vaccine.

[code monkey]

yes, the vaccine news is exciting - 90% efficacy! - but we must maintain a sense of proportion.

1. manufacture and distribution will be difficult. it must be maintained at -70C. the suggestion is that it not be taken above that for > 1 minute. yes, Pfizer is working at special packaging and making the freezers available but still …
2. one must receive 2 doses
3. the trial must run longer to allow for the collection of the required safety data


nonetheless this is a start. a good start. and no I have no stock options.

Yikes! They are also saying it will probably be one of those annual things like the flu vaccine.

still, like 10**3 lawyers at the bottom of the sea(sorry, geonuc) it's a good start. or a start, if you prefer. other vaccines are in trials.

[Rommie]

Moderna's is ~95% efficient, and no super cold storage required! Huzzah!

I mean, there's definitely a long road to go still. But I for one have come to the conclusion that some people probably met the news of D-Day with stern warnings that Berlin was still a thousand miles away, and how dare you have hope for a better future. I am also fully aware that we are not going back to "normal" for some time yet, but revel for the stages in between, like not stressing my immunocompromised friends under virtual house arrest for months are going to die.

[lady_*nix]

Rommie... I don't want a worse world. I badly want things to be better than this. I've just internalized not to hope too much, because I've seen hopes betrayed so much lately.

Believe me, there is nothing I'd like more right now than to be able to hug my friends again without worry about them dying from it.

[pumpkinpi]

I listened to a podcast about the Pfizer trials yesterday and they mentioned something I haven't seen anywhere else (Not that I've been exhaustively reading/listening about it.) They still have a lot more data to gather regarding side effects of the vaccine. They didn't say how long, whether it's 2 more weeks, 2 months, 6 months, etc. But that's another important hurdle to jump over.

[SciFiFisher]

Yes, the news about another hopeful candidate for the vaccine is good.

[Rommie]

What was the podcast?

And yes, I heard that too. Anecdotally however there are so many people enrolled in these trials that you can literally go online and see what people are saying who enrolled, and if you believe those anecdotes (slash we don't know who got placebo) it sounds similar to the flu vaccine where my arm gets sore for a few days. Some people were also reporting some nausea or mild fever for a ~day after they got it, so probably plan to take the day off when you need to take it, but yeah still sounds better than getting coronavirus.

It also wasn't clear to me from reading this that if the side effect studies are just a few weeks more, or that it's something that will come in post emergency authorization. (As in, vaccines don't work in such a way that it is going to spontaneously cause you to get sick a year from now, and any long term health effects will be a helluva lot more rare than what you face getting covid.) I'm not sure how these studies happen.

Also interesting to me that it's not clear as yet how much these vaccines actually stop transmission or minimize it for person to person- as in, can people who get the vaccine still spread it, or is it just affecting them that they don't have symptoms like the polio vaccine did? I'm guessing that is also a long-term study, so a lot of us will still be wearing masks in public for awhile even if we are vaccinated (though man if you thought that was an argument before...).

[code monkey]

I listened to a podcast about the Pfizer trials yesterday and they mentioned something I haven't seen anywhere else (Not that I've been exhaustively reading/listening about it.) They still have a lot more data to gather regarding side effects of the vaccine. They didn't say how long, whether it's 2 more weeks, 2 months, 6 months, etc. But that's another important hurdle to jump over.

my understanding is that the agency is requiring 3 months of data for safety evaluation. data entry, queries etc. will take a bit of time as will doing the final interpretation of results and assembly of the package for submission. (yes, they're working on all of that now but new data are still being generated as the study's not ended.) I don't know if the data become publicly available upon submission or later.

we did hear of trials that were paused (and then restarted) because of events. manufacture and distribution are not insignificant difficulties.

[pumpkinpi]

What was the podcast?

Probably Short Wave; they have had two episodes on vaccines in the past few days.

[Rommie]

Ah cool, I like that one and will have to check it out.

Fauci gave an interview today that basically tackled the question of "if you're a perfectly healthy younger person, when might you start getting the vaccine?" and the answer to that is April. My husband is all "yeah, but this is America, you can probably pay a few thousand extra and get it a month or two earlier!" The pragmatist in me thinks he's adapted well to the American way of thinking about things...

[lady_*nix]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... y-suggests

Woof. I wonder how/if being on HRT affects this. Also honestly kind of worried about this becoming a gatekeeping thing, the US being what it is. "Oh you're on testosterone but your medical records still say F, no booster shots for you."

[Rommie]

What was the podcast?

Probably Short Wave; they have had two episodes on vaccines in the past few days.

I listened to their two latest episodes last night, and the one answered your question about side effects that the other just glossed over. IIRC, there are a few potential side effects that could pop up 2-3 months after you get the vaccine, so they're required to follow up with at least half the study's participants during/after that time frame to verify if any of those are present... but I remember these trials all began in the summer, so I'm guessing that time has passed and now it's a quwestion of "wait for that data to be compiled." It would be in line with the "first vaccines by the end of the year" thing anyway.

[Rommie]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/18/covid-19-antibodies-fall-faster-in-men-than-women-study-suggests

Woof. I wonder how/if being on HRT affects this. Also honestly kind of worried about this becoming a gatekeeping thing, the US being what it is. "Oh you're on testosterone but your medical records still say F, no booster shots for you."

I think right now everyone's just going to get the booster shot, because it's not like women vs men are automatically better or worse on antibodies, just that there's a correlation (bc of course there would be variance within both, and not like you can tell in advance).

I think questions like this about antibodies really just going to come down to a factor less in this round, but more in future years if we are all going to have an annual coronavirus vaccination like people do with the flu.

[pumpkinpi]

My museum closes Saturday for at least 4 weeks.

[Rommie]

Sorry to hear that, pumpkinpi. But I guess it's for the best.

[lady_*nix]

Welp, two of my roomies want to visit relatives for Thanksgiving. I told them we should all wear masks in common areas for two weeks following, but there was no mistaking the "Hur dur it's a free country, don't tell me what to do!" look on the male roomie's face.

Guess I'll just try not to die.