Election 2018

[SciFi Chick]

I have come to realize that conversations about voter fraud are basically the classic mirror into how you view government and society. As in, because it's so easy in your state to vote, there's no question more than 11 people voted who wouldn't have if there was some sort of ID law in place. But if you legit get upset about those 11 people who illegally voted versus the many more who would have been disenfranchised... let's just say I've seen that correlates well with people who get upset about welfare because some people will cheat the system and other things like that.

I confess I've never been terribly upset at the idea of a few people who will cheat the system so long as the grand majority benefit from it. Not enough to suggest fixing inefficiencies over scrapping the whole kit and kaboodle, at least.

I agree 100%. As you all know by now, I've been watching some conservative talking heads and I absolutely HATE it when they try to stir people up about voter fraud. Y'all probably don't know this, but there's a whole thing on the right about the idea that they like illegal immigrants because they will all vote illegally for Democrats. WTF? Tucker Carlson pushes this idea, and let me tell you - I like Tucker Carlson, but if I ever met him, the first thing I'd question him on is this nonsense.

I'm not a fan of illegal immigration. I've paid thousands of dollars to do it in two directions. And I don't have any sympathy whatsoever for the caravan headed our way. But the idea that Democrats are importing illegal aliens for votes? Show me some damn evidence.

But that's what you're getting the tail end of when you see people freaking out over voter fraud.

And speaking of welfare, they're convinced all the illegal aliens are getting tons of welfare as well. I'm like, some of them are. Some of them are totally getting fraudulent social security cards and gaming the system. But how many? I'm betting not very many.

I need to write a movie about someone who suddenly finds themselves on the wrong side of the law and doesn't actually know how to break the law without getting caught. It's not as easy as everyone thinks, I'm betting.

[Sigma_Orionis]

I think Sigma gets where I'm coming from the best.

I get where you're coming from. I may not agree on everything, but I get it.

And that's okay. I'm not seeking agreement. I'm seeking to be understood so we can have a discussion. I'm trying to look at the perspective of winning. I'm looking at what the Democrats need to do to win. My strategical ideas may not be the best ones, but I think it's fun to look at, and I'm very disappointed with the road they're going down at the moment - at least if the news media is portraying it accurately.

I, frankly, hate living in a world where all sources are suspect and we're left to guess who's telling the truth.

Everybody's favorite punching bag (ie Nancy Pelosi) has made it clear that they're not going to play that game. Although, of course. Trump's shuffling act at the DOJ might just change that.

[SciFiFisher]

I confess I've never been terribly upset at the idea of a few people who will cheat the system so long as the grand majority benefit from it. Not enough to suggest fixing inefficiencies over scrapping the whole kit and kaboodle, at least.

I'm not a fan of illegal immigration. I've paid thousands of dollars to do it in two directions. And I don't have any sympathy whatsoever for the caravan headed our way. But the idea that Democrats are importing illegal aliens for votes? Show me some damn evidence.

But that's what you're getting the tail end of when you see people freaking out over voter fraud.

And speaking of welfare, they're convinced all the illegal aliens are getting tons of welfare as well. I'm like, some of them are. Some of them are totally getting fraudulent social security cards and gaming the system. But how many? I'm betting not very many.

I see this mentality in the VA/Military disability systems. Some people commit fraud. Therefore we must make the entire system so difficult that only the people who commit fraud and maybe about 20% of the people who really need the programs can manage to access the benefits.

I don't know what the fraud rate is. But, in general with reasonable safeguards most benefit programs keep the fraud rate low enough to be an acceptable cost of ensuring that at least 90% of the people who really need the benefits can get them.

There is even some really cool scientific modeling and math stuff you can do to predict the potential fraud rates. You know. Like a cost to benefit ratio or some other weird stuff.

As for voting fraud. I think they finally decided that the rate of voter fraud is something like 1/1,000,000 of a percent.

When someone starts screaming about voter fraud when it's pretty apparent that it's like one in one million votes then I am just going to suspect that their real issue is that they want to suppress votes but they can't do it the old fashioned way anymore.

Same with people screaming about welfare fraud. They are essentially angry that a "certain type of person" is getting all the benefits while "people who deserve the benefits" are being denied. Of course, they can't come out and say that welfare should only be for people who meet the moral, racial, and religious standards so they use other red herrings.

[Thumper]

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