Why Libertarianism is Wrong

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Why Libertarianism is Wrong

Postby The Supreme Canuck » Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:12 pm

Why? Very simple. Because the ideas it's based on result in this.

That's Lac-Mégantic, Quebec this Saturday morning. A freight train hauling over 70 tanker cars full of crude oil exploded right in the middle of the town. Scores are dead, and the place was levelled. So what happened? They don't know exactly, but they do know that because of recent austerity measures at the federal level, the relevant rail safety regulations have been going unenforced - the government has been relying on railways to enforce the regulations themselves. To self-police.

Of course that doesn't work, since companies have no incentive to do so. They're going to shirk and cut corners. And that's why libertarianism - an ideology premised on the notion that companies will self-regulate - is broken: it results in the deaths of scores of innocents, because those companies can't be trusted to self-regulate when there's a buck to be made by not doing so.

"But wait, TSC," you say, "sure companies might fail to do the right thing, but then the marketplace will sort them out! Companies that fail to act properly will lose business! The market self-regulates!"

Two responses to that:

1) There's no guarantee of that. If there are no regulations and every company has an incentive to cut corners, why wouldn't they all do that? If your company is crap and people want to go elsewhere with their business, but every other company is just as bad, that particular market mechanism doesn't work at all, does it?
2) So the idea is that a company does something bad, people see it, then they take their business to other companies meaning that companies have an incentive to not act badly? That's a nice theory. Too bad it means that people die in train conflagrations before the market acts to correct the deficiency, don't you think?

I mean... honestly. If this isn't an argument for government regulation, I don't know what is. Libertarianism just means more sorrow for everyone, all in the name of a political and economic system that doesn't even achieve what it sets out to do. Bleh.
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Re: Why Libertarianism is Wrong

Postby Sigma_Orionis » Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:42 pm

Libertarianism like Anarchism is a pretty ideal, and like Communism, looks great on paper. Reality is another matter altogether.
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Re: Why Libertarianism is Wrong

Postby geonuc » Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:42 am

TSC is 100% right on this.
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Re: Why Libertarianism is Wrong

Postby Sigma_Orionis » Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:52 am

Despite my own "quasi-Liberatarian" position I must agree.
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Re: Why Libertarianism is Wrong

Postby Cyborg Girl » Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:46 am

Letting the foxes police the hen house doesn't work... Who'da thunk? Oh wait.

(It always irks me when Libertarians accuse people on the left of being starry-eyed idealists who are out of touch with reality.)
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Re: Why Libertarianism is Wrong

Postby FZR1KG » Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:27 am

Like I keep saying, they call it an ideology because it only works in the idea world, not the real one.
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Re: Why Libertarianism is Wrong

Postby SciFi Chick » Tue Jul 09, 2013 11:46 am

Seriously. And even if the market will 'self correct' after a disaster like this one, I, personally, prefer correcting it in a less deadly way. Guess I'm just not a fan of freedom. :roll:
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Re: Why Libertarianism is Wrong

Postby FZR1KG » Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:55 pm

The whole self regulating market bullshit is built up on either a lie or misunderstanding of the original intent, or both.
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Re: Why Libertarianism is Wrong

Postby Sigma_Orionis » Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:17 pm

I've changed my mind, Libertarianism is great, it's going to save the world from all you pinko-commie-liberals.

Why?

Because the owner of the train company says it was the train engineer's fault

Atlas Shrugged all over, Ed Burkhardt is the incarnation of John Galt, LONG LIVE AYN RAND! :cheer:


what an asshole.......
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Re: Why Libertarianism is Wrong

Postby The Supreme Canuck » Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:03 pm

Yeah, that guy's a fuckhead. He's been blaming the engineer, the government, other railroads, firefighters, (hypothetical) train thieves... and he still hasn't showed up in the town yet. He's sitting on his ass in Chicago, trying to tell the world why he and his company have done no wrong. Bullshit about his railroad's safety record is at the forefront: "Other railroads have more track. So their accident per mile of track ratio is lower than ours. That's the only reason why their ratio is better, and is why we actually have a good record!"

Newsflash: you still blew up a train and killed 50 people. That shows that you have a bad safety record, no matter what your ratio is. Worse, your bad ratio is proof of a bad record, not a good one, no matter how much track you have, since not only do you have less track, you have fewer trains to crash. A bad ratio means your operations are less safe than your competitors', no matter how big they are relative to you, because a higher proportion of your trains explode or derail or otherwise end in disaster.

But worst of all... you killed 50 people due to gross negligence, and wiped a town off the map. And your response is to worm your way out from any possible negative consequences to yourself by shouting "Don't blame me! It was other people!" That your response was not compassion for the victims, genuine contrition, and a willingness to accept accountability makes you callous, slimy, and sociopathic. While it remains to be seen if this disaster is your fault, it is absolutely clear that it is your responsibility. It seems that, in a furtive and shameful effort not to be blamed or held legally liable, you have ignored that responsibility in the most egregious and unfeeling way possible. The people who were harmed by your business are people, not entries in an account book.

And that is why you, sir, are a fuckhead.

/rant
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Re: Why Libertarianism is Wrong

Postby Sigma_Orionis » Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:12 pm

Apparently he had the gall of blaming the engineer (and yes even the firefighters) when he set foot on Lac-Megantic and the Residents heckled him for it.
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Re: Why Libertarianism is Wrong

Postby The Supreme Canuck » Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:20 pm

Oh, he actually set foot there? Jesus, what a stupid thing to do after spending days explaining why it was better for everyone not to do it. Sorry - didn't click the article before ranting. Too pissed off.

I'm glad they heckled him; he deserves far worse.
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Re: Why Libertarianism is Wrong

Postby Sigma_Orionis » Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:24 pm

Flanked by police escorts no less. This looks like taken from a movie.....
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Re: Why Libertarianism is Wrong

Postby The Supreme Canuck » Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:34 pm

You know, it really does seem like the sort of overblown "evil corporate CEO" that you see in a lot of populist films... no one could possibly be that carelessly evil.

Well, guess what? We've found the modern-day Lex Luthor, and he's an idiot.
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Re: Why Libertarianism is Wrong

Postby FZR1KG » Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:03 pm

You know sociopaths tend to bubble up to the executive positions so of course he wasn't to blame...because pediophelia has nothing to do with train wrecks.
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Re: Why Libertarianism is Wrong

Postby Thumper » Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:07 pm

The article that Sigma linked has a before and after picture showing some of the destruction. They have only identified 1 of the 20 bodies recovered. Approximately 30 people are still missing, and presumed dead. Authorities asked relatives of persons missing to bring in DNA samples to help with identification. But they cautioned that some may never be ID'd because their bodies had been burned to ashes. The railroad president said he was better able to "deal with the situation" by staying in Chicago and communicating with insurers. :evil:
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Re: Why Libertarianism is Wrong

Postby Sigma_Orionis » Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:54 pm

It gets better....

Lac-Mégantic derailment investigators search railway's offices

Lac-Mégantic Mayor Colette Roy-Laroche said Thursday afternoon that MM&A had not replied to a letter of formal notice issued 48 hours ago demanding they repay the town for clean-up costs.

As a result, she said, the city's officials and the provincial government are taking legal steps to ensure that the rail company repays Lac-Mégantic for the $4 million it has so far paid to clean-up crews.

Roy-Laroche said the town had to pay the contractors hired by MM&A to ensure the clean-up work continued.

She was disappointed by the lack of response, if not surprised.

"I wish the company would behave like a good corporate citizen," she said.
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Re: Why Libertarianism is Wrong

Postby The Supreme Canuck » Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:31 pm

Yep. Worse and worse. The federal body responsible for railway safety just passed a bunch of new regulations - all reasonable stuff like "A freight train hauling dangerous goods needs at least two engineers in the locomotive."

Already the libertarian brigade is out with editorials calling it "unnecessary over-regulation."

Just... fuck you. I'd call it pretty fucking necessary, and not at all onerous.
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