Election 2024

[Rommie]

I mean, probably deserves its own thread instead of all the random ones we've been posting on various other things.

Can I just say what a great breath of fresh air the last few weeks have been in politics? Like there we were all walking around with malaise, and suddenly everyone seems hopeful again that things won't be as terrible as we thought they would be just a month or two ago. Like, had I ever heard of Tim Walz a month ago? Nope. Did I imagine everyone would pivot to Kamala Harris so quickly? Also nope.

Absolutely wild that when people actually get the kind of candidates they want, they get so enthusiastic about not just voting for the same old crap, isn't it? And yeah if anything definitely proves that American elections are far too long- even if we'd done a 1+ year primary I doubt people would be as enthusiastic about Harris because that shit is just exhausting. It's arguably not ideal in the sense that I don't know her policy positions in as good detail as if there was a primary... but I also don't know how much her plan on, say, educational reform matters much in this election, you know?

Also, damn has Trump aged so much now by comparison alone. Heard his interview a bit with Elon Musk yesterday because Floris was playing it, and I was struck by how the dude definitely had a lisp- not a huge one, but a "when my grandma didn't have her dentures in" one. Not sure what that was indicative of, but it does make me wonder if he's not campaigning much for a bigger reason.

[pumpkinpi]

Before Biden stepped down I was just ignoring the whole campaign because I was resigned to the fact that Trump was going to win and I just couldn't face it. MrPi was already looking for job opportunities abroad....

But yes, it's been great to see this energy and I hope it isn't just a honeymoon period, that it carries through. One might think it would have been better for Biden to have chosen not to run and Harris be in the primary race from the start, but then we would have had to go through that whole process, and we might not have such a concentrated excitement.

As for Tim Walz....well, of course I've known who he is for a long time! A former teacher MN congressperson turned governor? Amazing! But I have to say I wasn't immediately thrilled with the pick. Don't get me wrong, he has done wonderful things for this state. But to be the VP candidate, one has to be able to step in as president at any time, and I don't know if his experience scales up. I also hadn't seen any presidential aspirations out of him in all of his time here, but I guess it's normal that any governor would have that.

I know the pick is more about "sure he'd do fine, but what's more important is that he'll get votes." So I hope that works! Whether or not he'll be a good VP will work itself out, doncha think?

[lady_*nix]

I'm hopeful for the Harris/Walz campaign, but I'm not gonna lie, I'm also really scared. Especially the way the Republicans have been ginning up transphobia wherever possible, and with Gen Z men (esp. white men) becoming increasingly conservative. And the way I have trouble convincing my male peers on the (increasingly mainstream) US left to even care. It's all very "first Hitler, then us" over here.

What happened in France also gives me hope. But the US is not France.

[Rommie]

pumpkinpi, I 100% agree on your previous sentiments. I was very much looking into jobs abroad this fall if it was still Biden even though I very much didn't want to, but then it got depressing to think about because it's not like almost anywhere in the world is immune to the current right wing trend (Europe for example isn't a complete bastion of anti-fascism lately). My sister kept insisting to me "you have to stay and fight!" but, well, maybe it'd be selfish of me but half of our family fled totalitarianism just two generations ago, and half stayed. The half that stayed just had a hard as fuck life of crippled opportunities, and forced labor camps, and all sorts of stuff I just don't want to ever worry about or have my child think about. Plus if you look at academia in Florida right now, it's pretty clear nationwide they'd make being a professor no longer a fun job, to put it mildly. So yeah, I for one am happy to instead spend my energy on the very real chance we hopefully have in turning this around...

Re: Walz, I read an interesting article in the NY Times about Kamala Harris's decision to pick him, and the point that you raise- no presidential aspirations- was actually a huge factor for her! Apparently Shapiro was filled with questions about his duties and powers as VP, and just gave off the vibe of "I want this job so I can be president after you." Walz, OTOH, was very "I just want to help the team" and didn't have interest in being the president, so she chose him because he gave off the vibes of supporting her over giving off Machiavellian vibes. And honestly, given the accelerated pace of everything, and knowing how much women have to deal with men undermining them, I really can't blame her.

lady_*nix, don't get me wrong, I'm not all "well, we're done here"- just with optimism that we are heading in the right direction, whereas I didn't have that until recently. In fact, I think if anything the most difficult part will be after the election, where if it's even a hair close it will all be in a state of disarray (and probably even if it's a blowout there will be shenanagins). Which fucking sucks, but at least there I'm not the only one worried about it.

[pumpkinpi]

pumpkinpi, I 100% agree on your previous sentiments. I was very much looking into jobs abroad this fall if it was still Biden even though I very much didn't want to, but then it got depressing to think about because it's not like almost anywhere in the world is immune to the current right wing trend (Europe for example isn't a complete bastion of anti-fascism lately).

MrPi had specifically been looking into a position in Germany, but when we were in Europe he spent some time in his company's office there and they said the same thing, it's not really any better there right now. I got the same line from the locals at the conference in Berlin. So yeah, might as well stay with the known.

[Rommie]

So every once in awhile I think about mike and what XOF would do with current politics. Like, at what point in "they're eating the dogs!" do you have trouble making a parody because real life is just so weird? (I also just find it wild that JD Vance has now made it so his own constituents are hiding at home afraid and schools are canceled because of bomb threats. With friends like these...)

That said, I do like this rendition of it.

I'm also kinda shocked that some pollsters (Nate Silver) still insist that Harris is likely to lose over a guy who does a debate performance like that. I can certainly buy someone saying it'll be close as hell, because what isn't these days, but that's just nuts to me that so many people could watch that insanity and conclude "yeah I'm ok with this."

[lady_*nix]

With Nate Silver part of the problem is his own politics - he's been sliding to the right alongside everyone else in the tech bro circles he runs in, and I suspect he'd like to throw the election for Trump without being too obvious about it. Plus the pundit class in general benefits socially and financially from having a fascist conversation piece in office.

I'm not convinced the debate matters, though. Clinton wiped with floor with Trump in the 2016 debates, won the popular vote by several million voters, and lost the election anyway. I do think Harris has a better chance against him for a lot of reasons - e.g. being progressive rather than centrist old guard, being visibly younger and healthier than Trump, being a better talker than Clinton, and not having the multi decade baggage of the anti-Clinton media hate machine - but yeah, I'm still pretty worried.

Edit: also wanted to add, I think it's a testament to Harris' charisma and skill that most pundits didn't even try to spin the debate as a Trump win. Because I would bet a lot of them wanted to.

[Rommie]

See, part of me finds it interesting to argue that debates don't matter when the last debate literally led to the candidate exiting the race.

More seriously now, I think what does matter in this context is yeah, by the time most of them happen we're sick to death of the candidates because we've heard from them for years. For Harris, though, there was not such a recognition going into it, so I think it's fair to argue that it mattered way more because lots of folks were of an "I want to get to know her better" mindset. She sure could have fucked it up at any rate.

[SciFiFisher]

pumpkinpi, I 100% agree on your previous sentiments. I was very much looking into jobs abroad this fall if it was still Biden even though I very much didn't want to, but then it got depressing to think about because it's not like almost anywhere in the world is immune to the current right wing trend (Europe for example isn't a complete bastion of anti-fascism lately).

MrPi had specifically been looking into a position in Germany, but when we were in Europe he spent some time in his company's office there and they said the same thing, it's not really any better there right now. I got the same line from the locals at the conference in Berlin. So yeah, might as well stay with the known.

Yeah, a far right party just seriously won elections in Austria within the last couple of weeks.

[SciFiFisher]

So every once in awhile I think about mike and what XOF would do with current politics. Like, at what point in "they're eating the dogs!" do you have trouble making a parody because real life is just so weird? (I also just find it wild that JD Vance has now made it so his own constituents are hiding at home afraid and schools are canceled because of bomb threats. With friends like these...)

That said, I do like this rendition of it.

I'm also kinda shocked that some pollsters (Nate Silver) still insist that Harris is likely to lose over a guy who does a debate performance like that. I can certainly buy someone saying it'll be close as hell, because what isn't these days, but that's just nuts to me that so many people could watch that insanity and conclude "yeah I'm ok with this."

You have summed it up with that one statement about people being ok with the insanity. They had sort of an excuse in 2016. But, by 2020 we all pretty well knew what Trump was and what people like the Koch brothers wanted to replace our representative democracy with. And yet more people voted for him in 2020 than they did in 2016. The fact that right now somewhere around 75,000,000 or more people might vote for Trump just makes me realize how many of my fellow Americans cannot be trusted to be decent human beings. Trump by himself is no danger to our democracy. Trump plus 75,000,000 or more voters is a very scary thing.

[Rommie]

I've reached the point of "OMG, how do we have two more weeks of this." Like good lord, can't we just be done?!

They keep saying there are lots of people out there who are still undecided, but it seems just impossible in the modern political environment. I feel it's more likely that it's less that people are undecided between the two so much as are they enthusiastic enough to turn up to vote for their chosen side.

[Thumper]

If you are undecided about your choices this election, then I don't trust you to operate a spoon.

[lady_*nix]

Yeah, undecided voters are scary stupid.

A lot of it though isn't people who are undecided so much as don't think their vote matters for whatever reason - and usually these people lean more liberal than conservative. How well Democrats perform depends a lot on how good they are at convincing these people to stand in line in muggy 90 degree weather for 10 hours, risk getting fired taking time off work to vote, drive an hour to the nearest polling place since the Repubs closed all the closer ones, or whatever other bullshit they have to deal with.

And this is why voting should be compulsory, and time off for it should be legally protected. But good luck ever getting that done in the United States of Every Man For Himself (emphasis on "man" and "him").

[Rommie]

Interestingly, here in Oregon like all other people in the state I got my ballot by mail automatically already, last Friday. Also got a pamphlet in the mail, very very thick, which is about all the candidates and issues, where everyone can submit a statement pro or con said issue. So sometime in the next few weeks I get to fill that out on my sofa and either mail it back or drop it off at a box location.

I mean, kinda sad to not go in person and get a sticker (ah, the things we do for a sticker as adults), and I always thought it was a fun little event to go vote in person, but it's also the 3rd highest voter turnout state at like 75% so clearly it's a better system. But I'm sure many states will never consider it now because of the 2020 allegations.

[Thumper]

I voted a couple weeks ago on the first day of in person walk in voting in Fairfield county, Ohio. It was pretty busy. I had to wait in line for like 15-20 minutes. Most other times I've been second or third in line. Mrs. T went last week and said there was basically no line. So we're both done.

[lady_*nix]

I did early early voting on the first day of it here (Oct 19). So that's out of the way... Now just to wait.

[Rommie]

I finally looked at my ballot that came last week for the first time last night, because with the baby and her bday I hadn't had time. And, hah, for all my kvetching about the lack of a sticker... there's an "I voted" coloring page! So I guess my 7 year old self is satiated and I can just vote like a normal person.

Insanely enough, someone started torching ballot boxes up in the Portland area. Frankly I find it slightly odd to have them out here with no security (I guess there's cameras), so I'll either pop mine in the mail or return it in person downtown at the election office to be safe. What a crazy world that you have to even think about these things.

Also, seriously, torching ballot boxes in OREGON! Come on, loser! You think that's gonna make a difference in the vote count at all?! Just gonna land you in jail, idiot.

[lady_*nix]

Yaaaay voting

And yeah it's wild how most of the ballot box arsons have been in solid blue states... At least the ones we hear about. But I think it kind of makes sense, if the arsonists are thinking less of impact and more just doing it as an act of hate.

[SciFiFisher]

Yaaaay voting

And yeah it's wild how most of the ballot box arsons have been in solid blue states... At least the ones we hear about. But I think it kind of makes sense, if the arsonists are thinking less of impact and more just doing it as an act of hate.

Solid blue states do have a fair share of MAGA or conservative voters. They are especially frustrated because their vote “doesn’t count” because they support candidates who can’t win most of the time. So, I can see some of the really frustrated or unstable ones enacting their hostile fantasy by torching ballot boxes. Of course, in the rural areas of even the most progressive states you have enclaves of them.

[lady_*nix]

Tell me about it... Earlier today I removed two Trump/Vance stickers near the neighborhood Dunkin, and my area is stereotypically hippy leftist.

[lady_*nix]

Jesus... The results are not all in yet but it looks like Trump will win by a landslide. With the Republicans taking both the House and the Senate.

What the fuck... What the fuck is wrong with this country.

[squ1d]

Came back just to say...

Why?

[Rommie]

Well, this fucking sucks.

Why is simple- people are getting squeezed economically, and they blame the incumbent government for it. Also, no one thinks they're one of the "others"- there was a story on NPR recently for example about Puerto Ricans still voting for Trump after they were called garbage, and what it comes down to is they consider themselves white and don't think the neo-Nazis will be coming for them.

Part of me feels like fuck it, people are gonna get what they deserve... but then I remember folks like lady_nix here who are not going to have a good time of it, and I feel so awful for you/them.

[lady_*nix]

Appreciate the sentiment Rommie, but TBH I'm just as worried for you and the millions of other cis women (and trans masc people) facing a federal abortion ban in the near future. Though also I'm... honestly and literally praying that public officials here in MA have the ovaries to stand up to the federal govt a bit, and at least e.g. not dismantle MassHealth if the ACA gets repealed. (That shouldn't happen AFAIK, RomneyCare here predates the ACA, but who knows what fucked up enforcement clauses Trump's goons will throw in.)

squ1d, you and me both. I wasn't surprised by a Trump win, but I was absolutely shocked that he won the popular vote - we know exactly what he stands for, we've seen it all before, what the fuck are people smoking? It would feel so much less terrible if he'd been hoisted in by the electoral college, instead of given a mandate by the quarter of the US population who voted for him.

Oh, and sorry for the slow replies all. I'm actually recovering from a concussion and supposed to be minimizing screen time. Hell of a week for a head injury, gotta say.

(A head injury achieved while cleaning my flat's toilet, no less. At least it's a mild bit of gender validation?)

[lady_*nix]

Meanwhile, it's Nov 6 and 78 degrees Fahrenheit outside. In Boston.

I know the Dems haven't done that much to slow the climate implosion, but literally anything would help at this point. Another Trump presidency is a really bad omen, especially with "left" ecofascists already waiting in the wings with ideas like "deliberately genocide 3 billion people to reduce carbon output".