Should I Stay or Should I Go?

[Stavro]

https://youtu.be/oGIFublvDes?t=1m10s

So, Brexit might be a thing now. EU was sold as en experiment.

[Rommie]

Yeah, not every day you go to sleep and wake up in a different world. And also, guess I'm not applying for that job in London now...

I seriously didn't actually think they would do it, I confess. This is likely because all my British friends are expats and/or have spent a ton of time abroad, so while it was a biased sample I didn't think it was that biased.

Also this worries me, because if Brexit can happen then Trump can too!

PS- hi!!!

[squ1d]

As a dual national with a UK passport, and having grown up in England, I think this sucks.

[Cyborg Girl]

Holy shit. I never thought this would actually happen.

[geonuc]

Idiots.

I saw one Leave proponent state that people were tired of 'experts with acronyms' telling people what to think. Those experts with acronyms being the various economic organizations that warned of a big hit on the UK's GDP if it left the union. So, it appears that rejection of expertise is not just an American issue.

Idiots.

[Swift]

Trump thinks it is a good thing.

Need I say anything else?

[SciFi Chick]

Trump thinks it is a good thing.

Need I say anything else?

No. No, you needn't.

[Cyborg Girl]

As it happens, Nigel Farage thinks Trump is a good thing.

[Rommie]

Idiots.

I saw one Leave proponent state that people were tired of 'experts with acronyms' telling people what to think. Those experts with acronyms being the various economic organizations that warned of a big hit on the UK's GDP if it left the union. So, it appears that rejection of expertise is not just an American issue.

Idiots.

One of my UK colleagues (currently, frankly, in mourning) said that the lead proponent for Brexit (Farage) has already come out in his speech and said that the leave campaign had lied about several of their "facts" about how things are going to play out. Also, then at the end he finished it with saying that this had happened “without having to fight, without a single bullet being fired.” ROT IN HELL YOU LIAR, THAT POOR WOMAN ISN'T EVEN COLD IN HER GRAVE!

I've had a pretty wild ride living in Europe the past few years between the Euro crisis and the refugees/migrants, but this really takes the cake. I can't imagine Scotland not leaving now- turns out Gibraltar got to vote too btw, they're totally out as well- and David Cameron might even go down as the man who unified Ireland, strangely enough. And I also imagine, if I were an EU minister, that the hammer will come down hard. You can't give even do a compromise, just cold turkey after two years, because if other countries see it's not that bad if you opt to leave (and trust me, there are going to be a lot of other referendums now) then Europe is done. And economics aside, Europe cannot afford to again risk their longest standing peace in history.

[geonuc]

Yeah, it's a smart bet that the UK itself is in trouble in terms of its own union.

[SciFiFisher]

In theory they have two years to reverse the decision. Not likely to happen. But, they keep negotiating with Greece over their "bailout". It is going to be very interesting (in a very bad sense) to see if this triggers another global "recession". Economically if times are hard and bad it increases the possibility of violence internationally and internally for affected countries.

[squ1d]

I haven't been so glued to the news for a whole day since 2001

[geonuc]

It is going to be very interesting (in a very bad sense) to see if this triggers another global "recession".

Bite your tongue! We do not need another one of those.

[Swift]

In theory they have two years to reverse the decision. Not likely to happen. But, they keep negotiating with Greece over their "bailout". It is going to be very interesting (in a very bad sense) to see if this triggers another global "recession". Economically if times are hard and bad it increases the possibility of violence internationally and internally for affected countries.

So much for retiring in five years....

[Sigma_Orionis]

IHMO, it sucks that the UK is leaving the EU, it does carry the risk of a world recession and it's bad for the UK as a whole. Yet, the EU had it coming. Even the IMF told them to lay off their stupid job killing policies, Wolfgang Schaeuble and his Dutch sidekick Jeroen Dijsselbloem told the IMF to shove it, and the French were too cowardly to dissent. So what did the rabble in those irresponsible "Club Med" Countries do? they flocked to the UK, giving the separatist nutjobs the fodder they needed.

They plunged the world into war in 1914, and haven't learned a thing since then.

[vendic]

Lets make Briton Great again! lol

[Cyborg Girl]

My God.

"The British are frantically Googling what the E.U. is, hours after voting to leave it"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the ... ost&wpmm=1

My. God.

And to think I believed the US had monopoly on this.

[Sigma_Orionis]

[vendic]

rofl

[Rommie]

In theory they have two years to reverse the decision....

No. A way to leave the EU did not at all exist until a few years ago, when Article 50 came into effect, but said Article says that once a country opts to leave and tells Brussels so there is a maximum of two years of doing so, or earlier if all their obligations can be wrapped up more quickly. (EU officials are actually looking into getting them out earlier than two years, I heard today. Probably wise, if you are an EU official.) The thing is once you say you want to leave, you cannot stop the process unless every single country in the EU votes to allow the reversal. So nope, they're/we're rightly fucked, the only potential loophole is it's not a binding referendum (but of course politicians hate to completely go against the will of the people).

GJ, if that troubles you, do not check out this video of a man who voted leave and is "shocked" that it actually happened.

[vendic]

rofl

[Stavro]

If anyone in Europe knows Union into modern times and modern struggles, it is the United Kingdom. Been doing it for a while. If they see a reason to bolt, there might be a reason. More telling will be if the United Kingdom disunites.

[Stavro]

One of my UK colleagues (currently, frankly, in mourning) said that the lead proponent for Brexit (Farage) has already come out in his speech and said that the leave campaign had lied about several of their "facts" about how things are going to play out. Also, then at the end he finished it with saying that this had happened “without having to fight, without a single bullet being fired.” ROT IN HELL YOU LIAR, THAT POOR WOMAN ISN'T EVEN COLD IN HER GRAVE!

They all lied. No one "knows" how it will turn out. Will it go left? Will it go right? Will it go up? Will it go down? The only thing for sure is it won't go like either side said it would. In the end (say 20 years from now), I'd lay my money on the middle. No free lunch either way.

[Sigma_Orionis]

Back in 1918, when the Allied Powers were negotiating that wonderful piece of paper called "The Treaty of Versailles" that was supposed to end "The War to end all Wars", there was in circulation a most probably apocryphal piece that illustrated the positions of Woodrow Wilson and Georges Clemenceau:

Wilson: "My only objective in promoting the creation of the Society of Nations is to avoid future wars"

Clemenceau "It's not possible to avoid wars, no matter what organizations exist for this purpose if we don't agree on three principles"

Wilson: "Which ones"

Clemenceau "First: to declare and apply racial equality. Japan has already presented a resolution to the convention to that effect, Do you agree?"

Wilson: "I'm afraid not, the racial theme is a very delicate matter in the US. Our Senators in the South and in the West Coast would NEVER approve a treaty with such a term in it"

Clemenceau: "Second, free immigration. No country should close its borders to those who wish to live in it. Do you agree?"

Wilson: "No, my country cannot accept more Asians, and Congress is studying the restriction of european immigration"

Clemenceau: "The third principle is Worldwide Free Trade, what do you think of that?"

Wilson: "I personally agree with that, and Congress has reduced tariffs across the board. But, Congress will never accept a Customs Union with Europe, Africa and Asia"

Clemenceau "All right, in that case, the only way to maintain peace is for us to be strong and our enemies to be weak. No Society of Nations is going to achieve that"

With the benefit of hindsight, we know how all that ended. But that is not my point, My point is. The modern European Union is an attempt to compromise on those three principles. BUT, IMHO it has one very very weak spot. The economy of its member countries is inextricably linked, yet it's "every man on his own". The way that thing is set up, when times are good, all is good, when times are bad.... well, we see what happens. AND, if you ask me, if the Germans keep having the same economic policies this is going to continue to happen.

[vendic]

The solution to everything is to be the strongest most deadly country in the world and each country's duty is to that goal and should test it's systems with regular wars to make sure it's competitive.
There is no other way to world peace.