I'm-not-voting-for-either-candidate

[squ1d]

Remember all those butthurt Bernie supporters? I wonder what they're thinking now about their childish decision not to vote for Hillary.

Well I bet a shitload of them were at these protests.

Trump got one thing right: the time for action was election day. Something like 45% of people didn't turn up, and now they're complaining? Every time I see something about people reacting badly to Trump's latest stupidity, I just get furious. Where's all the apathy of November gone? It's too late now.

The fact of the matter is that a hugely narcissistic and dangerous buffoon got elected, because a large portion of people DON'T GIVE A FUCK.

You might wonder why I even care about it, not being an American or living in the USA. Mainly it's because the rest of the world consistently has a lot of shit to deal with after another lunatic is installed in the white house. We're still living with fallout of George W Bush, and many potential Trump blunders, including the destabilisation of NATO would have serious consequences for my geopolitical region.

I think I might spend the next 4-8 years (could be shorter: apocalypse, or longer: removes 2 term limit) putting my fingers in my ears and closing my eyes and ignoring any news from the USA.

[Thumper]

The Kid was surfing social media getting tweets and snippets, pics, and videos from friends and acquaintances who were at the inauguration or the women's march the next day. She saw a post from the daughter of one of my best friends. She was in DC as the women's march. Her parents assumed she was in her dorm on a college campus in SC. I weighed my loyalties and the consequences of my actions, called my buddy and informed him of where his daughter was. Told him I was sorry and didn't do it to be a tattle tale, but as a father, I'd want to know if my daughter was no where near where she was supposed to be.

I went into the house and told Mrs. T what I had done. She was concerned but understood why I did it. She was sympathetic to my friend's daughter saying, "We'd be concerned if The Kid went to DC or participated in a protest, but we would respect her right to do these things especially given that Mike's daughter is an adult." I said, "Yeah, I know. Mike said she was going to tell them tomorrow when she got back to campus." Better to beg forgiveness later than to defy her parents beforehand. Mrs. T said, "Hmmm." I told her I had been known to use that tactic in the past. Then I told her of Mike's last text to me. That his daughter had not even voted......

All of Mrs. T's sympathy for her disappeared in that moment...

[squ1d]

Arghhhh!

[Cyborg Girl]

I must admit my disgust with non-voters is tempered by the fact that I'll have to work with them now, in political activism vs. Trump's agenda. Working together is going to be non-optional if we want a lot of people to survive this.

But, yeah. I voted for Sanders in the primary, and Clinton in the general. You want to improve the status quo in a democracy, you have to participate in it, IMO. (Even if it's a lousy democracy in a lot of ways.)

Also, would like to note that many people probably failed to vote due to suppression by the Repubs. Long lines, distant polling places, states restricting early voting... And just having full-time jobs with no off time for voting. Given a choice between "voting" and "not getting fired", most people will choose the latter.

[SciFi Chick]

Without getting into the issue of voting or not, I too, am confused by what all these people think they're going to accomplish with all these marches.

[Swift]

I think I might spend the next 4-8 years (could be shorter: apocalypse, or longer: removes 2 term limit) putting my fingers in my ears and closing my eyes and ignoring any news from the USA.

That's my plan.

Which is much harder when you actually are living in the USA.

[Cyborg Girl]

@SFC, it's not *just* marches; there's also stuff like Cosecha (sanctuary movement), worker strikes, putting pressure on local government...

I would also point out, the Women's March already accomplished something: a show of force. It showed that huge numbers of people are pissed enough to actually mobilize - more people by far than bothered with the inauguration. Trump's people try to deny this, and the Internet is already making a laughing stock of them; Sean Spicer is being likened to Baghdad Bob.

They're trying to force us to believe in their fantasy-world, instead of the reality that we see. Mass displays of resistance are one (temporary) antidote.

@Swift, you do you. I have a bunch of friends now who are in direct danger, so ignoring stuff is not really an option for me.

[SciFi Chick]

squid - I don't blame you for giving up on America one bit.

[Rommie]

I've thought about this too- pretty much everyone in the new department went to the march in Toronto on Saturday, and I mused a bit what the point was, and the answer I got was "the more of there are, the more coverage the issue gets to show not everyone agrees with what's going on." But who the fuck in the USA who can change what's happening now cares about a march of a few thousand people in Toronto, Canada? Even if there was a million people at the march, I don't think they'd care. And frankly I don't think they care much in the USA either- there's nothing that can be done from the damage of the next few years, because the people in charge are there from apathy and will be busy ramming every policy through they can rather than caring about future elections. They've shown a spectacular disinterest in people who don't agree with them, after all. I feel the entire protest is just going to end up in the same bin as Occupy Wall Street in terms of long term effectiveness, because ok a lot of ppl marched Saturday, but not like there's anything new going on today.

Mind, I could hear the marchers so I was thinking about heading out to see what's going on, more because I like people watching and such (I did see apparently the way in Canada to hold up your protest sign is duct tape it to your hockey stick, which I think is awesome). So ended up cleaning apartment instead and then going to fetch the boyfriend from the airport, as that was a much more useful way to spend my time.

I will say though, one funny thing out of it is my sister did go to the march in Washington DC, with my two month old niece, and sent a picture to the family WhatsApp group after asking me if she should- I said yeah, good for our parents to know she was there because half the time I think their problem is lack of exposure to opposing viewpoints from people they know. (Of course, everyone in my family votes, just not the same way.) My mom then proceeded to get upset, claiming it wasn't because of my sister's right to protest but bc of safety. Hah!

Well, here's hoping this helps people feel inspired to run for local office or volunteer or whatever. I guess that's the best that can come of it.

[SciFi Chick]

@Swift, you do you. I have a bunch of friends now who are in direct danger, so ignoring stuff is not really an option for me.

None of your friends are in "direct danger." Nothing has happened yet.

[vendic]

I've thought about this...

*like*

[SciFiFisher]

Without getting into the issue of voting or not, I too, am confused by what all these people think they're going to accomplish with all these marches.

It's a way to promote visibility. It's a way to recruit like minded individuals. If the organizers of these marches are smart they are collecting contact information and putting people in touch with each other. The marches are one way to advertise that you are not alone. It can energize someone to volunteer for other activities that lead to actual changes and meaningful opposition.

[Swift]

<snip>
And frankly I don't think they care much in the USA either- there's nothing that can be done from the damage of the next few years, because the people in charge are there from apathy and will be busy ramming every policy through they can rather than caring about future elections. They've shown a spectacular disinterest in people who don't agree with them, after all. I feel the entire protest is just going to end up in the same bin as Occupy Wall Street in terms of long term effectiveness, because ok a lot of ppl marched Saturday, but not like there's anything new going on today.

Yep

Trump actually might care a tiny iota, in that he likes his ego stroked and he wants to imagine that everyone loves him, and any deviation from that alternative fact is obviously a lie by the media, who are all against him. (by the way, I'm unsure if that is what he actually believes, or just the narrative for his con job, but it doesn't matter)

Neither Paul Ryan nor Mitch McConnell could give a flying fuck how many million women are marching. What's the approval rating for the House and Senate? 3%? I think cockroaches are more popular, they don't give a rat's ass.

[Rommie]

So in the vein of my earlier post, I just heard that they're now planning the next big march on April 15, to pressure Trump to release his tax returns. WTF? While this one I could find marginally useful in terms of getting actions out of it, I cannot in a million years imagine Trump looking out on a bunch of protesters and think "you know what, they're right, I'm going to release my tax returns!" Nor do I think exposure on this matters- if you care at all about politics you know he didn't release them, and clearly enough people don't care enough to not elect him.

Also to be fair, I had a chat with my sister today and she tells me that the Women's March is now doing a 10 actions in 100 days campaign- you can check it out here. First one is simple, write a postcard to your senator.

I feel like this is one I can get more behind.

[Swift]

First one is simple, write a postcard to your senator.

But even that I'm increasingly of the opinion, why bother.

David Joyce has been my congressman for years now. He is solidly Republican. Rob Portman is one of my Senators and he also is solid Republican. I don't think either have ever voted against their respective leadership. I've sent dozens of emails and even real letters over the years. I always get a polite, contentless reply (thank you for your thoughts, I will keep them in mind as I wipe my ass with your letter). It has never changed anything they've done. I've tried polite and I've tried in-your-face and it doesn't make a difference (I called Portman a traitor about something).

Sherrod Brown is my other Senator. I don't have to worry how he'll vote.

So again, what's the point?

[Rommie]

Yeah, I confess that's one where I'm not sure I'm going to do it (like, I vote in Florida, you think Marco Rubio's gonna care what I think about climate change?) but I'm still gonna keep an eye on the page to see if they have suggestions on things I want to do. I'm not that cynical.

[Swift]

I'm not that cynical.

I hope not... I have a 25 year head start. Don't rush it, it will come.

[vendic]

lol

I'm with you Swift. My cynical meter blew it's lid years ago.

[SciFiFisher]

I'm not that cynical.

I hope not... I have a 25 year head start. Don't rush it, it will come.

I tell people most of my righteous indignation was beaten out of me over the years.

[DimSum]

I marched on Saturday not because I was upset that Mr. Trump won the election, though it pissed me off that he lied, cheated, denigrated and colluded with a foreign power to win the election. I marched because I have daughters who will lose their healthcare if Planned Parenthood is defunded. I marched because I will lose out if the VA is privatized. I marched because the civil rights of LGBTQ citizens of this country are at stake. I marched because the civil rights of women are at stake. I marched because the civil rights of people of the Muslim community are at stake. I marched because the sons and daughters of my black and Asian friends are at stake. I marched because the lives of my military brethren are at stake. I marched because this is how Dr. King taught us that our voices may be heard.

If you don’t think that marching in this manner does any good, then you don’t know your history. Take a look at the march on Selma. The march on Washington. Both marches brought together black and white. Young and old. Gay and straight. Just as Saturday’s march did.

And now that we have been brought together, it is time to get to work. Find people that are willing to run for office. Start locally. All politics are local. School board, city council, mayoral… state house, governor’s mansions, Congress and the Senate. 2018 is the target year for the “Come to Jesus” meeting.

That's why people marched. And it wasn't just women. It was men, gays, lesbians, transgendered, black, white, Asian, Latin, young, old and inbetween. This is about more than just about one man, but about what he represents. If you can't figure out why he scares the living crap out of people then, ok. That's fine. But understand that there will be people that will be working to actively unseat him in 2020. and to actively turn over the Congress in 2018. We aren't going to call him names, like the right did President Obama for eight years. We will point out lies. We won't sit by and let the government steamroll us.

You know, it's funny. When I was at the march, in Riverside, I was talking to a couple of women who marched in the 60s and 70s... who knew Gloria Steinem. They thought that their days of marching were over. And now this. And they were willing to put on their marching shoes to make sure that we retain the rights that we have, and that we gain the rights that we need to be full citizens of this country.

That is why we marched.

[grapes]

Remember all those butthurt Bernie supporters? I wonder what they're thinking now about their childish decision not to vote for Hillary.

I was not a Bernie Bro, but I imagine they're thinking, the election of Trump will ruin the Republican Party, the election of Clinton would have ruined the country. And what if they were thinking that, do you think they're just biding their time, waiting for the inevitable? Maybe. Who's right? Might they've been wrong, maybe we'll never know. I don't think the US is going to take that chance again.

That's the problem with binary. You're either with us, or agin us, male or female, white or black, rich or poor. Heaven or hell.

[Cyborg Girl]

Everything brite said above. Thanks, brite. (Or should it be DimSum now? )

@SFC: no, trust me when I say some of my friends are in direct danger. They get healthcare through the ACA, have chronic health problems that might make them uninsurable, or are in demographics that corrupt police and/or bigoted goons will be able to freely trample without fear of punishment. I'm not even going to get into doxxing and blackmail and shit by Vlad and Donnie's shared troll army, which will do a number on anyone; never mind on people with already extant mental illnesses.

So. Yeah. Danger. Unhindered Trumpism will get people killed. And that's *before* ethnic cleansing of Latinx immigrants, immigration bans, nationwide stop-and-frisk, targeted policing of Muslims... Just the most limited subset of his stuff is going to kill people. Goddess help us if he actually gets to do what he says.

[squ1d]

Remember all those butthurt Bernie supporters? I wonder what they're thinking now about their childish decision not to vote for Hillary.

I was not a Bernie Bro, but I imagine they're thinking, the election of Trump will ruin the Republican Party, the election of Clinton would have ruined the country. And what if they were thinking that, do you think they're just biding their time, waiting for the inevitable?

I think they are wailing and gnashing teeth on a protest somewhere.

[geonuc]

If you don’t think that marching in this manner does any good, then you don’t know your history. Take a look at the march on Selma. The march on Washington. Both marches brought together black and white. Young and old. Gay and straight. Just as Saturday’s march did.

We also put an end to a war.

[vendic]

Remember all those butthurt Bernie supporters? I wonder what they're thinking now about their childish decision not to vote for Hillary.

As in chess, sometimes you have to sacrifice the Queen to win the game.