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[Sigma_Orionis]

Daniel Ellsberg speaks out on Snowden.

Thoughts?

As a Greasy Swarthy Furriner my position is:

A) NO, I dont like one bit the existance of covert surveillance programs, even if they are a "Necessary Evil"

B) NO, I don't know if the US would be less secure without them.

C) For all their overreach and screwups I don't think that the US Federal Goverment is full of sociopaths or even idiots (I'd say a quater full).

D) Do I think that Snowden was right leaking whatever he leaked on the US "Prism" surveillance program? I don't know, but considering what a bumbler he was looking after his own skin, I am not so sure that all he leaked was accurate.

E) I'm afraid that Daniel Ellsberg is wrong, I don't know how true are the allegations that Bradley Manning has been mistreated during his incarceration. But I suspect that being a High Profile case (just like Snowden's) even if the US Federal Goverment is composed of sociopaths and syncophants they'd know that it would NOT be in their best interest to mistreat either of them,

F) After reading this paragraph by Ellsberg:

I hope that he finds a haven, as safe as possible from kidnapping or assassination by U.S. Special Operations forces, preferably where he can speak freely.

I have decided that he's full of shit.

[FZR1KG]

F) After reading this paragraph by Ellsberg:

I hope that he finds a haven, as safe as possible from kidnapping or assassination by U.S. Special Operations forces, preferably where he can speak freely.

I have decided that he's full of shit.

Why?
because he thinks Snowden has escaped the oppressive US regime and gone to the safer havens of China, Russia and now looking at even more humanitarian places like Bolivia?

[Sigma_Orionis]

You forgot to mention Venezuela

I going to the LatinAmerican-American Defense League and tell them that you disrespected us and that you don't deserve a cookie today :

[SciFiFisher]

No one guilty of breaking the law and committing treason and/or espionage wants to think of themselves as wrong or ignoble. Ellsberg was incredibly lucky that he committed his crime during an era when it was acceptable to allow criminals to walk away Scott free because of a technicality. He broke the law just like Manning and Snowden have. The fact that he wants to dress it up and make it sound noble so that he can sleep better at night doesn't make him or Snowden a hero.

[Sigma_Orionis]

Apparently Snowed decided to come here

Whooppee, I guess he's bringing his own supply of Toilet Paper

[Sigma_Orionis]

Maybe Snowned and Ellsberg should read about the kind of countries that want to give him Asylum...

This, Edward, is the Real Deal

Even that Right Wing Tool known as the Guardian has this to say about us....
Chávez airs wiretaps of political rivals

[FZR1KG]

Hmmm, live in Venezuela or go to prison for life...decisions decisions...prison food isn't that bad from what I hear Edward.

[Sigma_Orionis]

Funny, you just reminded me that at two large companies I worked in there were rumors that Upper Management had company security install hidden microphones and that they recorded all conversations that went on mid-level managers' offices.

Not to mention all the rumors I have heard over the years that our glorious revolutionary government monitors all email communications in and out of the country....

[Thumper]

An official with Amnesty International is reportedly going to meet with Snowden in Russia today.

[Sigma_Orionis]

And the beat goes on.....

Edward Snowden re-emerges for Moscow airport meeting

"This dangerous escalation represents a threat not just to the dignity of Latin America or my own personal security, but to the basic right shared by every living person to live free from persecution," the message read.

The dignity of Latin America.......OH BROTHER!

[SciFiFisher]

And the beat goes on.....

Edward Snowden re-emerges for Moscow airport meeting

"This dangerous escalation represents a threat not just to the dignity of Latin America or my own personal security, but to the basic right shared by every living person to live free from persecution," the message read.

The dignity of Latin America.......OH BROTHER!

I think the Spaniards shipped the dignity of Latin America back to Spain on one of the treasure ships.

[Sigma_Orionis]

No you Damned Imperialist Gringo Infidel(TM), it was NOT shipped to Spain by the treasure fleet.

Our beloved Latin American Dignity was shipped to a bank in Miami by our glorious leaders

[Sigma_Orionis]

The Evil CNN imperialists are having a grand time acusing us spiritually enlightened Latin Americans of double standards and using Snowned to keep the public's attention away from chronic inflation and food shortages.......

And apparently Snowned is having problems deciding whether he wants to come here to our precious socialist paradise or stay in Pooty's Lair, what a joke.

[Rommie]

Congress to vote today on whether to kill NSA program-link

Basically it looks like someone tabled it into the defense spending bill by saying they'll cut funding for the program, and they have to vote on it today. So if you're against it this might be a good morning to call your Congress-critter.

[FZR1KG]

I still don't get the fuss.

[Cyborg Girl]

Even more fuss

(Apparently Snowden wasn't lying about them knowing everything. OTOH, I have to ask who the hell gave access to XKeyscore to a guy as junior as Snowden. I mean holy fuck.)

[SciFiFisher]

Even more fuss

(Apparently Snowden wasn't lying about them knowing everything. OTOH, I have to ask who the hell gave access to XKeyscore to a guy as junior as Snowden. I mean holy fuck.)

That would be Booze Allen Hamilton. Government contractors extraordinaire.

[Parrothead]

Snowden granted temporary asylum in Russia. Perhaps he should try to release documents about the Russian gov't and see how he gets treated.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23535524

[The Supreme Canuck]

This is why the US government monitoring everyone's internet habits is a bad thing.

Michele Catalano was looking for information online about pressure cookers. Her husband, in the same time frame, was Googling backpacks. Wednesday morning, six men from a joint terrorism task force showed up at their house to see if they were terrorists. Which prompts the question: How'd the government know what they were Googling?

[...]

[T]hey were peppering my husband with questions. Where is he from? Where are his parents from? They asked about me, where was I, where do I work, where do my parents live. Do you have any bombs, they asked. Do you own a pressure cooker? My husband said no, but we have a rice cooker. Can you make a bomb with that? My husband said no, my wife uses it to make quinoa. What the hell is quinoa, they asked. ...

Have you ever looked up how to make a pressure cooker bomb? My husband, ever the oppositional kind, asked them if they themselves weren’t curious as to how a pressure cooker bomb works, if they ever looked it up. Two of them admitted they did.

[...]

They mentioned that they do this about 100 times a week. And that 99 of those visits turn out to be nothing. I don’t know what happens on the other 1% of visits and I’m not sure I want to know what my neighbors are up to.

So... not a problem at all, right? No need for a fuss?

[Cyborg Girl]

LOL nanny state LOL!

[Sigma_Orionis]

I think THIS elaborates on things like that.

[Cyborg Girl]

But now on the other hand, when you have anonymity and privacy, you get stuff like this. (Never mind thousands of much worse cases.)

Seems to me there must be some balance, somewhere, between government overreach on one hand and criminal free-for-all on the other... Problem is finding it.

[Sigma_Orionis]

You starting to sound like............. the HNIC!

[SciFiFisher]

But now on the other hand, when you have anonymity and privacy, you get stuff like this. (Never mind thousands of much worse cases.)

Seems to me there must be some balance, somewhere, between government overreach on one hand and criminal free-for-all on the other... Problem is finding it.

and it's not a static target. It's really like trying to juggle knives while balancing on a ball that is on a balance beam..... that is suspended over a boiling cauldron of tar. will you do the splits on the balance beam? skewer yourself with the knives? Or just suffer third degree burns? Of course, if you are successful everything is golden.

[Cyborg Girl]

Whatever constitutes a reasonable solution, I would say that carrying it out openly, and not lying to the public about motives and methods, would be a good start.