SciFiFisher wrote:Thumper does raise a good point. In the midst of all the discussion there is one glaringly obvious truth. This was a tragedy. A young man is dead and another's life is (very likely) going to be a living hell for the foreseeable future.
It's very hard not to be emotional about issues that people feel passionately about. Things like equality, fairness, justice, compassion, empathy for others, and etc are all good things to be passionate about. In our debates about this case or others we should not forget that.
And that is(in part) what makes this case so difficult. Because there is nothing more passionate than a good man or woman trying to stand up for the noble passions that we rightly must stand up for if we are to call ourselves human.
I think it helps to step back from the passion and view it through the lens of logic and calm. But, I also believe that we must not squeeze all emotion out of our thinking. Because to do that would be to lose the noble passion that we must have if we want the world to change and become a better place.
I've posted that this was a sad set of circumstances and I really believe they were.
I also feel for Martins parents but being killed doesn't absolve ones part in their own death.
Finding someone guilty of second degree murder when it doesn't fit that description won't solve anything.
Martins life is gone, Zimmermans life is no longer going to be the same.
There are now hate groups targeting him for what they feel is misjustice.
Then I look at other cases, OJ, the case in New york I posted where a white 16 year old was shot by a bigger more powerful and trained man, who happened to be black. The latter got very little attention, no outcries. The former got attention because of OJ on the freeway failing to pull over and that it was a celebrity murder.
It seems to me that the media hypes up the population to near frenzy levels by those who scream the loudest and right now, they happen to be screaming bloody murder here.
I have posed the question here that no one has touched, what would anyone of you do if you had a guy bigger than you knock you down and was pounding away and no one came while you were screaming for help?
As far as I can see, there is nothing to suggest this did not happen other than speculation.
What I see here is that Martin thought Zimmerman was a creepy guy.
Zimmerman thought Martin was a possible burglar.
Martin was beating what he thought was a creepy assed cracker.
Zimmerman thought he was being beaten by a violent burglar.
What I find both guilty of is that neither tried to diffuse the situation.
Both escalated it.
Zimmerman could have been more easy going, crack a joke or two, identify himself as a neighborhood watch person, though if Martin were a burglar that may make things worse.
Martin could have started a conversation, "Hey, thats a really nice house bla bla bla"
Instead they both seemed suspicious of the other.
I remember in Georgia we parked our car next to a motorbike.
i did what I normally do, look at it. The owner and his friend instantly thought the worst.
Came at me pretty fast with fight attitude.
So I started a chat about bikes. had a great chat, asked if I could take some pics. Tooke them, shook hands with the guy and went our way.
Would have been different if I gave attitude back, what, i'm looking at a bike in a public area, whats your fucking problem. I have the right to do that.
Wonder how that would have turned out.
In Atlanta, I approached a black guy talking to a white girl and he was holding his pitbull pup on a lead.
The people I was with all thought it was a bad idea.
Really?
I can't go and chat with a black guy holding a dog because it could be seen as provocation.
Fuck me, provoking what? Being friendly gets you into a fight now?
I went up, as I did the girl made a fast walk out of there in a bit of a panic.
I said hi, had a longish chat, patted his dog, I asked permission first. Said to the guy have a good night and he went out of his way to shake my hand.
I got to meet a local and have a chat about dogs and Atlanta in one case and got to have a chat about bikes in the other.
The problem I see here in the USA is that almost everyone is suspicious of everyone to the point that they can no longer identify real suspicious behaviour.
That needs to change. That's why I think Martin died. That's why I think the kid in NY died.
All this BS about race is making things worse not better.
As such, given no real reason to think the Zimmerman case was about racism it makes sense to not make it about racism.
Its self defeating and will only escalate things.
Too late for many though.