FWIS3

Gullible Jones wrote:... The American Physical Society? Seriously?

But yeah, I think that goes hand-in-hand with normalization/rationalization.

Edit:

Re capitulation, for me it might come down to personality. I expect other people not to be bullies and sadists, because I am generally not one. However, I do expect other people to be cowards, because I am usually a coward. I'm not sure though what reality and cognitive science would have to say about either case though (c.f. Zimbardo).

It's called confirmation bias. And you do it well.

Yeah, here is the now redacted APS notice if anyone wants to make their blood boil, or at least see what capitulation will look like over the next few years:

APS Urges President-Elect Donald Trump to Strengthen Scientific Leadership
WASHINGTON, D.C. – The American Physical Society (APS) congratulates Donald Trump on being elected president of the United States of America. APS urges President-elect Trump to incorporate the necessary policies that will enable our great nation to reclaim its scientific leadership, which it has lost during the past decade. APS believes that such policies will help the Trump administration achieve its goal captured by its slogan, "Make America Great Again."
According to the Information Technology and Innovation Foundation, the United States ranks just 10th overall in innovation, "largely because its innovation-supporting policies, such as funding scientific research, are lower than those of other countries."
Moreover, our scientific infrastructure has decayed badly, especially compared to what European and Asian nations have done to improve theirs. To keep the best and brightest in America and to attract the best and brightest from around the world, the new Trump administration and Congress must make sustained and robust funding of scientific research a top priority.

And here is the post that was removed from the Women in Astronomy blog.

Gullible Jones wrote:@SFC, I know you're not personally an anti-Semite (which is why I let that fly). But squ1d and Rommie are right, the way you put it sounds uncomfortably like an anti-Semitic talking point.

I'm not going to let this slide. As I said, in my response to squid, I have proof that a large group of Jewish people have gone out of their way to suppress what happened to the Armenians in favor of making what happened to them the worst tragedy of the twentieth century.

You tell me how mentioning that is a "talking point" that sounds anti-Semitic.

Rommie wrote:Yeah, here is the now redacted APS notice if anyone wants to make their blood boil, or at least see what capitulation will look like over the next few years:

APS Urges President-Elect Donald Trump to Strengthen Scientific Leadership
WASHINGTON, D.C. – The American Physical Society (APS) congratulates Donald Trump on being elected president of the United States of America. APS urges President-elect Trump to incorporate the necessary policies that will enable our great nation to reclaim its scientific leadership, which it has lost during the past decade. APS believes that such policies will help the Trump administration achieve its goal captured by its slogan, "Make America Great Again."
According to the Information Technology and Innovation Foundation, the United States ranks just 10th overall in innovation, "largely because its innovation-supporting policies, such as funding scientific research, are lower than those of other countries."
Moreover, our scientific infrastructure has decayed badly, especially compared to what European and Asian nations have done to improve theirs. To keep the best and brightest in America and to attract the best and brightest from around the world, the new Trump administration and Congress must make sustained and robust funding of scientific research a top priority.

And here is the post that was removed from the Women in Astronomy blog.

This was their announcement on Twitter about the retraction.
"APS has retracted the recent press release. We apologize and regret the offense it has caused."

That doesn't mean they (who wrote it, not every member) don't still support him. They just regret that they made it public. No excuse.

@SFC: That's... not what I said at all. FYI, referring to "the Jews" as a unit is... just not really a good idea, regardless of intent.

@Rommie: Ugh. The analogy to Third Reich scientists writes itself.

The Women in Astronomy post, OTOH, is basically more of what I've been getting from PoC activists and journalists. This Is Not Okay, but our institutions and media don't want to talk about it; and are generally prioritizing civility over civilization, as usual.

Sigh. If something like that is a cause for reputation concern, we have really bizarre ideas of what constitutes good citizenship. Oh wait no, not bizarre, just the usual seething bigotry... N/M.

Anyway, I need to make some calls to my representatives...

Edit: @pumpkinpi, that "regret the offense it has caused" bit is almost a non-apology.

Cue droning-rich-dude-in-a-suit voice: "I'm sorry I offended anyone..."

Gullible Jones wrote:
Cue droning-rich-dude-in-a-suit voice: "I'm sorry I offended anyone..."

More specifically, I'm sorry that you are offended.....the worst kind of apology ever. Because they really are not sorry and they really don't take any responsibility. They put it all on the offended. (APS wasn't quite at that level. But too damn close.)

Harry Shearer calls those "If pologies" or "Not pologies." He has a whole segment on his weekly show dedicated to those.

Gullible Jones wrote:@SFC, I know you're not personally an anti-Semite (which is why I let that fly). But squ1d and Rommie are right, the way you put it sounds uncomfortably like an anti-Semitic talking point.

I'm confused. Pointing out a fact is not a racist thing. Since I really can't see how it can be read as anti-Semitic without projection, I ask you to re-write all the facts she stated in a way that doesn't/wouldn't sound anti-Semitic.
I'm not kidding. Please do so. I just get the impression that sometimes it's near impossible or impossible to state facts without being accused of racism/sexism etc. That isn't just limited to Jewish issues either, far from it.

e.g. My mil has a lovely book on the history of the Jewish people, called, "History of the Jews". I wonder if the Getty Museum is selling anti-Semitic books, as that is where it was purchased from. I'm sure there are people that will take offense at the title. Maybe a protest is in order?

Personally I think it stems from science literature using "The" all the time. Like, "The big bang theory", "The theory of evolution", "The genesis of the Croatian ape" etc. So, stop being so anti science GJ. I know you aren't really, but when you get all upset over common scientific titling conventions it just strikes me as sooo anti-science and I always pictured you as not a Republican

If someone said "The black are engaging in a conspiracy" I would think that sounded pretty racist. So, in a hitherto unprecedented act of solidarity, I agree with GJ.

I don't think SFC hates Jews or anything, just sayin'.

I'd also like to hear more about this evidence regarding coverups - perhaps a new history thread?

Well, it turns out that it's Israel that is the problem, not Jewish people. I tend to think, in my head, of the people of Israel as 'the Jews'. What I'm going to write next is not a defense of using what is apparently a derogatory term. My defense is ignorance, and what I'm going to say is an explanation as to why. Growing up Christian, I read the Bible, a LOT. Somehow, I missed the fact that many evangelicals are anti-semitic while "supporting" Israel. (See that asshat from Breitbart.) I always saw "the Jews" as my heritage. After all, how could we have Christianity without "the Jews?" I never saw "the Jews" as responsible for killing Jesus. I saw the Pharisees as responsible. I spent a good deal of time in my teen years defending "the Jews." I tried to remind those around me that they were the chosen people of God, and it didn't matter if they believed in Jesus. It would all work out somehow. I also tried to remind people that Jesus was, in fact, a Jew. So after decades of thinking of these people, that to my mind were beloved, as the Jews, it's a habit. I apologize. But keep my story in mind if you're ever talking to someone who says "the Jews." Make sure you understand the context. More than likely, they are anti-semitic. I was strange for a Bible thumping Christian.

Oh, and here's an article on the subject that I brought up: Armenian Genocide.

There's always the possibility that my teacher was anti-Semitic and what he told me wasn't true. It's been over a decade. My memory isn't that good to remember the specifics of one class in a field I didn't continue to pursue. Maybe he was just tired of fighting for recognition while there are laws against denying the Jewish Holocaust.

Here's an interesting article on the word 'holocaust.' It seems Armenians aren't the only ones offended by the term only referring to Jewish people who were killed in Nazi Germany. But it also seems that the issue is with certain Jewish scholars, not "the Jews." Again, my apologies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_the_Holocaust

@SFC

The "unified bloc" implications of "the" are basically the issue here. Nobody likes it when people talk like they're part of the Borg Collective, even if that's not the intent.

Re use of the word "holocaust", I've encountered that - for instance, my philosophy professor at UMass thought that US government campaigns against Native American tribes qualified. I'm not sure if my Native American History prof used the word, but she definitely used "genocide" repeatedly in her course.

Gullible Jones wrote:@SFC

The "unified bloc" implications of "the" are basically the issue here. Nobody likes it when people talk like they're part of the Borg Collective, even if that's not the intent.

As I said, I understand that now, but can you understand where I was coming from? I'm not saying it was right, but it's worth noting that not everyone who uses politically incorrect terms means them in the way they've been defined.

Gullible Jones wrote:Meanwhile, the head of the LAPD has said his police department would not cooperate with Trump's administration on mass deportations. Which is... unexpected, and heartening. I had expected complete capitulation from the get-go from law enforcement brass.

Now hopefully they'll stick with that, and a few hundred more cities will follow suit... Then the question will be how willing Trump is to prosecute, harass, frame, or assassinate local politicians and law enforcement in order to replace them with toadies.

the mayor of Minneapolis has stated that the city's status as a sanctuary city will not change despite trump's threats of loss of federal funds.

@SFC

Sorry - yes, I can see where you were coming from. And I'd, uh, kind of prefer not to discuss this further honestly.

@code monkey

Good. I hope it stays at the level of economic crap; not really sanguine about that though. Trump may be a blithering idiot, but he's a sadist even more, and he's already surrounding himself with yes-men.

This is one of the big things I hate about The FWISers.

Thumper wrote:This is one of the big things I hate about The FWISers.

I know you're trying to be funny, but does 'this' represent anything, or are you just making a joke?

Thumper wrote:This is one of the big things I hate about The FWISers.

The Evil FWISers.

You have to get it right.

D@mn, just "trying" to be funny?
Tough crowd.

WE MUST BE DESTROYED

Sounds like someone called the Dalek Squad

squ1d wrote:WE MUST BE DESTROYED

Somebody needs to go to bed.

I can't because I work for Americans.

At least for now.

Oh crap, not The Americans.

Worst guys ever

Thumper wrote:Oh crap, not The Americans.

Now, THAT was funny.