What the shit, SCOTUS?

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Re: What the shit, SCOTUS?

Postby brite » Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:35 am

SciFi Chick wrote:
brite wrote:Except none of the birth control methods that they object to are abortifacants....
A little biology goes a long way....


WTF is an abortifacant?

The "morning after pill" and Ella (the two most popular) contain a higher amount of progesterone than the regular Pill and cause you to have a period kind of out of sync. It stops a potentially fertilized ovum from implanting into the uterus. They will also not be paying for the IUD, which does the same thing, for the same reason...
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Re: What the shit, SCOTUS?

Postby SciFiFisher » Wed Jul 02, 2014 4:27 am

brite wrote:Technically the justices can and should be impeached the moment that they show political bias. But that hasn't happened since the late 1800's...


That's because they are not showing political bias. They are showing conservative bias (at least 5 of them anyway). And that's ok. When it was a mostly liberal values court it was ok for them to vote for liberal bias. well, mostly. :P
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Re: What the shit, SCOTUS?

Postby The Supreme Canuck » Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:00 am

Fisher, you're going to give me an aneurysm.
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Re: What the shit, SCOTUS?

Postby Rommie » Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:59 am

So, TSC, lots of people are unhappy about this believe it or not. The question is, as always, how do you go about changing it? A new courthouse packing plan?
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Re: What the shit, SCOTUS?

Postby SciFiFisher » Wed Jul 02, 2014 3:22 pm

The Supreme Canuck wrote:Fisher, you're going to give me an aneurysm.


bwahahahahahahahahahaha. :P
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Re: What the shit, SCOTUS?

Postby Swift » Wed Jul 02, 2014 3:55 pm

The Supreme Canuck wrote:Bullcrap. "Activism" (something that I dispute actually exists) is only a problem when your court is political. When it's apolitical, there is no activism - there's just the proper interpretation and application of the law.

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Re: What the shit, SCOTUS?

Postby Swift » Wed Jul 02, 2014 4:00 pm

FZR1KG wrote:The times they are a changing.
Companies are people.
If they are people thus they now can hold religious views.
If they fuckup, they can be punished.
So by that reckoning, if a company kills someone through industrial accident the CEO's should be charged with murder or manslaughter which ever is fitting. Murder if they knew it could lead to death I imagine. That means, at least in Texas, we should now be able to execute CEO's for the sins of the company. lol

Corporations also are entitled to freedom of speech (in that they are unrestricted as individuals in their campagin contributions). I wonder when corporations will demand the right to vote. :think:

By the way FZ, in a case as you describe, they corporations will demand that their jury be a jury of their peers, ie, other corporations. Good luck getting that guilty verdict.
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Re: What the shit, SCOTUS?

Postby Swift » Wed Jul 02, 2014 4:09 pm

WASHINGTON, DC–The Supreme Court ruled on Monday that Roman-owned pizza chain Little Caesar’s was within its rights to place Christian employees in an arena and then unleash starved, vicious lions and lionesses upon them. The court cited religious freedom as its guiding principle. The 5-to-4 ruling opened the door to potentially thousands of Christian Little Caesar employees nationwide being immediately fed to the top predators of the African savannah.

Little Caesar’s argued that the persecution of Christians and the feeding of them to ravenous big cats was a “deeply held” religious belief, that the continued survival of the roughly 6,000 Christian employees, as well as the fact that they remained on company payroll, imposed a “substantial financial burden” on their religious liberty.

Last edited by Swift on Wed Jul 02, 2014 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What the shit, SCOTUS?

Postby Swift » Wed Jul 02, 2014 4:12 pm

Leviticus 25:44-46 / As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from among the nations that are around you. You may also buy from among the strangers who sojourn with you and their clans that are with you, who have been born in your land, and they may be your property. You may bequeath them to your sons after you to inherit as a possession forever. You may make slaves of them, but over your brothers the people of Israel you shall not rule, one over another ruthlessly.

Ephesians 6:5 / Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, with a sincere heart, as you would Christ,

Given those Biblical verses, the Supreme Court has ruled that corporations may keep slaves.
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Re: What the shit, SCOTUS?

Postby FZR1KG » Wed Jul 02, 2014 4:14 pm

Swift wrote:
FZR1KG wrote:The times they are a changing.
Companies are people.
If they are people thus they now can hold religious views.
If they fuckup, they can be punished.
So by that reckoning, if a company kills someone through industrial accident the CEO's should be charged with murder or manslaughter which ever is fitting. Murder if they knew it could lead to death I imagine. That means, at least in Texas, we should now be able to execute CEO's for the sins of the company. lol

Corporations also are entitled to freedom of speech (in that they are unrestricted as individuals in their campagin contributions). I wonder when corporations will demand the right to vote. :think:

By the way FZ, in a case as you describe, they corporations will demand that their jury be a jury of their peers, ie, other corporations. Good luck getting that guilty verdict.


Sounds about right.
I forgot the freedom of speech part.
All people are equal but some people are more equal than others apparently.

Also, foreign corporations can own part of an American registered ship/boat if they are partnered with an American company, but a married couple can't jointly own a boat if one is a not an American.
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Re: What the shit, SCOTUS?

Postby The Supreme Canuck » Wed Jul 02, 2014 6:12 pm

Rommie wrote:So, TSC, lots of people are unhappy about this believe it or not. The question is, as always, how do you go about changing it? A new courthouse packing plan?


No that compounds the problem since it doesn't actually fix the underlying issue. Courthouse packing is an attempt to gain political advantage in a politicized judiciary. When the problem is that the judiciary is politicized in the first place, that solves nothing.

The solution, as I see it, requires a few things to be done:

1) The appointments process needs to be burned to the ground and built up from first principles. Get the politicians out of it, since they appear to be unable to handle the responsibility like adults. Create some sort of non-partisan, arms-length, third party commission to draw up a short-list of nominees whenever there's a vacancy on the bench. Then you give that list to the president, and require that he or she pick from it. No one else can be appointed.

Now, normally I'd say you select judges and jurists to sit on the commission, but the system if so fucked at lower levels that I don't see that working, either. Maybe the ABA can do it. Maybe you find a bunch of the most respected (non-partisan) legal minds in the country and throw them in there. Christ, at this point, calling together a jury to make the decision is better than what you've got going on right now.

Point is, you stack the thing with people that the public can take seriously and who are seen not to be playing politics with the recommendations process. You run that show long enough, the institution gains political legitimacy and it becomes impolitic to either appoint political hacks or to ignore the commission entirely.

That's the biggest lesson I've learned from how the Canadian Supreme Court operates - legitimacy in the eyes of the public is profoundly necessary. They're always on guard to ensure their legitimacy is never questioned, which allows them to remain apolitical. That ship has sailed for the SCOTUS, which is why a new body needs to be created. It doesn't have the same baggage, so it has a chance at remaining apolitical and dragging the SCOTUS in the same direction.

2) The SCOTUS, as it currently operates, is not actually a supreme court. It operates as a de facto constitutional court. Meaning that it only really rules on constitutional issues, rather than being a court of final appeal in all areas of law. This is a problem. Constitutional issues are the ones most often entangled with politics. Since the court only ever rules on them, it only ever rules on politically-charged issues. This is not a recipe for an apolitical court, since the culture surrounding the US legal system means that all such decisions are viewed through a political lens. If the court were instead to operate as an actual supreme court, it would be seen to rule on apolitical cases. Which means not only that it would be able to rule apolitically, it would be seen to rule apolitically. The latter is important, as it changes attitudes towards the court, changes US legal culture, and (potentially) changes who gets nominated.

If you stop acting like the court only does politics, maybe it actually gets to stop doing politics. Public attitudes matter.

3) Speaking of, the media needs to stop reporting on SCOTUS rulings like a political horse race. It only makes things worse by entrenching the notion that the court is doing politics. Worse, it means that politicians see media advantage when they treat the court the same way. Make them stop (good luck with that). It may be that this follows from a broader change in the culture, but the media is going to make that broader change harder the entire time you're trying to do it.

4) I mentioned that the lower courts were also fucked. Easiest solution? Stop electing judges. That's insane. You want a perfect recipe for politicizing a court, make your judges run for office on political platforms. Not only does that require potential judges to take political positions (and be seen to take political positions), it requires that they carry out campaign promises while on the bench. Madness. Not only does that necessarily mean a politicized bench, it also means fundamental partisan disagreements between judges elected to the same court and it means that every judge serves two masters - the law and his or her constituents. Not only does that politicize things, it fundamentally perverts the legal process.

So cut it out.

Anyway, what it all boils down to is entirely changing the legal culture in your country. Knocking it down to its foundations, and building it back up properly. Because it's been fucked for centuries. Right from the Revolution, I'd argue.

Which means it will never be fixed. Sorry, guys.
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Re: What the shit, SCOTUS?

Postby Swift » Wed Jul 02, 2014 6:27 pm

Break-up letter with Hobby Lobby

Since corporations are people now, I thought this corporation deserved a human breakup letter.

Dear Hobby Lobby,

I think it's time I see other craft stores. I used to really like you despite some of your quirks (like not being open for business on Sundays). I thought, "Well, nobody's perfect." But after recent events, I'm afraid I just can't do it anymore. It's time for us to part ways, and I want you to know:

It's not me. It's you.

....

PS: I have some of your stuff. I'll be setting it out on the curb -- I don't have a use for it anymore.


:D
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Re: What the shit, SCOTUS?

Postby Swift » Wed Jul 02, 2014 6:36 pm

8 Other Laws That Could Be Ignored Now That Christians Get To Pick And Choose

Among the laws they suggest:

- NUDITY LAWS
Entire colonies of people are dedicated to the belief that being compelled to wear clothes is wrong. Others don't believe they should be compelled to make love only indoors. Don't wanna see this on your Saturday stroll? Hey, freedom isn't free.

- TAXES
Most religions profess a deep affinity for peace (while drenching history in blood in the name of religion, but whatever). Why should religious pacifists be compelled to pay taxes that subsidize war?

- STONING
The Bible is packed with tales of impure women meeting a just end under a pile of stones. Today, in certain countries, they're known as honor killings. Will the court make an exception to murder for the deeply religious?

- GENITAL MUTILATION
Female circumcision -- more commonly and accurately known as genital mutilation -- is central to the practice of some religions, according to some people who have strong beliefs. What is a democracy to tell people otherwise? In fact, the same could go for domestic violence, polygamy and whatever else.
Never, ever forget: we did this. This is what we can do.

In wilderness is the preservation of the world. - Henry David Thoreau

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead
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Re: What the shit, SCOTUS?

Postby FZR1KG » Wed Jul 02, 2014 8:03 pm

That's the biggest lesson I've learned from how the Canadian Supreme Court operates - legitimacy in the eyes of the public is profoundly necessary. They're always on guard to ensure their legitimacy is never questioned, which allows them to remain apolitical.


Totally agree, and with your other points as well.
Legitimacy in the eyes of the public here is almost non existent when it comes to law and enforcement.
Politicians rate lower than used car salesmen according to the last poll IIRC.
I wouldn't politicians even on the scale for being honest, trustworthy or working for the countries interests.
The country is the people and they obviously aren't for the people, hence not in the countries interests.
There's a name for people like that, it starts with t.
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