FWIS3

Swift wrote:

Rommie wrote:After talking to several old white dudes today reassuring me it'll be ok

I guess I'm just another old white dude, but it will be OK. But it won't be OK any time soon; maybe not in my lifetime. Probably in your lifetime; certainly in PP's kids' lifetime.

It is going to get a lot worse before it gets better. And it will get worse in ways that I think most people are not expecting.

I don't really expect WWIII, in fact I suspect we will get along great with the Russians. But it is going to be bad for the economy. It is going to be bad if you are a Syrian refugee. Its going to be bad if your health care was part of the ACA. Its going to be bad if you are in the lower middle class (did you really think Trump was going to help you?). It is going to be bad for the environment, and for a very long time to come (the NPS and a lot of other worthy agencies are going to pay for all those tax breaks for Trump's rich friends).

I've been telling this to myself too... but then keep coming back to that climate change bit upthread.

Rommie wrote:

Swift wrote:

Rommie wrote:After talking to several old white dudes today reassuring me it'll be ok

I guess I'm just another old white dude, but it will be OK. But it won't be OK any time soon; maybe not in my lifetime. Probably in your lifetime; certainly in PP's kids' lifetime.

It is going to get a lot worse before it gets better. And it will get worse in ways that I think most people are not expecting.

I don't really expect WWIII, in fact I suspect we will get along great with the Russians. But it is going to be bad for the economy. It is going to be bad if you are a Syrian refugee. Its going to be bad if your health care was part of the ACA. Its going to be bad if you are in the lower middle class (did you really think Trump was going to help you?). It is going to be bad for the environment, and for a very long time to come (the NPS and a lot of other worthy agencies are going to pay for all those tax breaks for Trump's rich friends).

I've been telling this to myself too... but then keep coming back to that climate change bit upthread.

Climate change is not going to be all right. Even if Hillary won, it was almost inevitable; now it is basically an absolute certainty.

Climate change will not be the end of the human race. As with so many things, it will be a hardship, but we will adapt to it. It won't even be the end of nature. But we are going through a major extinction event and there is no stopping it now.

If PP wants her kids to see a glacier, or a polar bear in the wild, or a poison arrow frog in the wild, or a coral reef, I would suggest planning those vacations sooner, rather than later; like before they reach college.

Thanks for the empathy for my kids--I really appreciate it, swift.

And Rommie, thanks for posting what your friend from Britain wrote. It's an interesting perspective I never would have thought of. It makes me maybe have some empathy for some of the people who voted from Trump....

I'm sorry, I just can't have any empathy for that level of ignorance. But thanks for showing me there may be a higher road to take. Maybe I'll try.

Watched the returns last night while group texting with my kids and husband. My worst moment was when my daughter-in-law, born Israeli, and impatiently waiting for her US citizenship papers to come, texted that this wasn't the country she thought she was joining. Anti-Semitic. Misogynistic. Ignorant. Racist. And on and on. Her own family in Tel Aviv was equally horrified. I am hopeful that Trump cannot do too much damage domestically, since there still appear to be some responsible Republicans (and Democrats) in Congress. But the damage to our national brand has already been done. We elected a hate monger and the world knows it.

The GOP finally found someone the Angry, Scared, Desperate, and Fed Up could all rally behind. I suppose we should have seen it coming. Populist movements have been winning a lot the last several years. I have been telling people not to trust the polls that were predicting Hilary would win by a larger margin. I suspect that people have gotten good at pretending to be more tolerant than they really are.

KKK were spotted this morning celebrating on a bridge in NC

I hope it's fake, but even if this one is, I'm sure there'll be something else awful popping up elsewhere by the end of the day.

Rommie wrote:KKK were spotted this morning celebrating on a bridge in NC

I hope it's fake, but even if this one is, I'm sure there'll be something else awful popping up elsewhere by the end of the day.

Anecdotally, I have been hearing of people being attacked already.

Rommie wrote:KKK were spotted this morning celebrating on a bridge in NC

I hope it's fake, but even if this one is, I'm sure there'll be something else awful popping up elsewhere by the end of the day.

Probably real. This is what David Duke posted on Twitter

This is one of the most exciting nights of my life -> make no mistake about it, our people have played a HUGE role in electing Trump!

And no, I don't follow David Duke on Twitter. I don't follow anyone on Twitter; I heard about this on the news.

gethen wrote:Watched the returns last night while group texting with my kids and husband. My worst moment was when my daughter-in-law, born Israeli, and impatiently waiting for her US citizenship papers to come, texted that this wasn't the country she thought she was joining. Anti-Semitic. Misogynistic. Ignorant. Racist. And on and on. Her own family in Tel Aviv was equally horrified. I am hopeful that Trump cannot do too much damage domestically, since there still appear to be some responsible Republicans (and Democrats) in Congress. But the damage to our national brand has already been done. We elected a hate monger and the world knows it.

I don't know what your daughter-in-law's politics are, but I don't think Israeli should be pointing any fingers. As a nation, they don't exactly have the best record on human rights or tolerance.

I was going to say that I thought one sliver lining was that the immediate fallout should be better than if Hillary were to have won. If the KKK is already at it, I guess not. But I can't imagine what they and so many other groups/individuals would have done had she.

I will say that this election adds to my growing conviction that democracy is actually a bad idea.

What should we do instead though? (As the tally comes in though, I'd say scrap the electoral college...)

Swift wrote:

gethen wrote:Watched the returns last night while group texting with my kids and husband. My worst moment was when my daughter-in-law, born Israeli, and impatiently waiting for her US citizenship papers to come, texted that this wasn't the country she thought she was joining. Anti-Semitic. Misogynistic. Ignorant. Racist. And on and on. Her own family in Tel Aviv was equally horrified. I am hopeful that Trump cannot do too much damage domestically, since there still appear to be some responsible Republicans (and Democrats) in Congress. But the damage to our national brand has already been done. We elected a hate monger and the world knows it.

I don't know what your daughter-in-law's politics are, but I don't think Israeli should be pointing any fingers. As a nation, they don't exactly have the best record on human rights or tolerance.

I have a lot of friends around the world, and I think it's not as much an Israeli thing, but that people always took solace that the most powerful nation in the world was one that had problems, but that the good guys were in the majority. Damage to the national brand is exactly the way to phrase it- most of these nations' citizens know they've got their own problems, but that doesn't mean they can't be horrified.

(Finally I will note that one thing I've learned living around the world is each nation's set of nationalism makes far more sense at home than it does to people abroad, so it's hard to understand what's appealing. My boyfriend's Dutch parents are sympathetic to the Dutch movement for example, but viscerally reacted to Trump's name in revulsion when I once mentioned him in passing.)

Everyone should read this excellent piece by Garrison Keillor

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/trump-voters-will-not-like-what-happens-next/2016/11/09/e346ffc2-a67f-11e6-8fc0-7be8f848c492_story.html?postshare=4871478711331438&tid=ss_fb

We liberal elitists are now completely in the clear. The government is in Republican hands. Let them deal with him. Democrats can spend four years raising heirloom tomatoes, meditating, reading Jane Austen, traveling around the country, tasting artisan beers, and let the Republicans build the wall and carry on the trade war with China and deport the undocumented and deal with opioids, and we Democrats can go for a long , brisk walk and smell the roses.

Would that it be that simple for me, in my heart, or in my mind.
Looks like I picked the wrong year to stop drinking.

I just donated to the ACLU, Planned Parenthood, the Southern Poverty Law Center, and the Union of Concerned Scientists. Feels like too little too late more than anything, but if anyone has some other organizations that can use extra cash right now let me know, I'm in a generous mood right now.

Rommie wrote:I just donated to the ACLU, Planned Parenthood, the Southern Poverty Law Center, and the Union of Concerned Scientists. Feels like too little too late more than anything, but if anyone has some other organizations that can use extra cash right now let me know, I'm in a generous mood right now.

Are you stealing my list? All good choices.

"The Kid's College Fund"?
Hey, look. I smiled. The day isn't a total waste.

Swift wrote:

gethen wrote:Watched the returns last night while group texting with my kids and husband. My worst moment was when my daughter-in-law, born Israeli, and impatiently waiting for her US citizenship papers to come, texted that this wasn't the country she thought she was joining. Anti-Semitic. Misogynistic. Ignorant. Racist. And on and on. Her own family in Tel Aviv was equally horrified. I am hopeful that Trump cannot do too much damage domestically, since there still appear to be some responsible Republicans (and Democrats) in Congress. But the damage to our national brand has already been done. We elected a hate monger and the world knows it.

I don't know what your daughter-in-law's politics are, but I don't think Israeli should be pointing any fingers. As a nation, they don't exactly have the best record on human rights or tolerance.

No, they also have their issues at home, but Israelis, like Americans, are not all the same. My daughter-in-law told us that last night reminded her of a night years ago when her family stayed up all night watching election returns only to learn that Bibi Netanyahu had been elected. They knew their country had made a mistake. Netanyahu was a known hawk, and their fear was that he would come down hard on the Palestinians, encourage further settlements on the West Bank, and otherwise reverse any progress they had made in forwarding Arab/Israeli relations.

Thumper wrote:Would that it be that simple for me, in my heart, or in my mind.
Looks like I picked the wrong year to stop drinking.

I picked the wrong year to quit amphetamines.

Thumper wrote:"The Kid's College Fund"?
Hey, look. I smiled. The day isn't a total waste.

I took it as a good sign that you were thinking of the kid.

SciFiFisher wrote:

Thumper wrote:Would that it be that simple for me, in my heart, or in my mind.
Looks like I picked the wrong year to stop drinking.

I picked the wrong year to quit amphetamines.

I picked the wrong year to quit building my rocket-ark.

pumpkinpi wrote:There are so many things to worry about. For example, one of my colleagues posted, "I work with environmental scientists and I am fucking terrified." We all could make a list a mile long of the bad things that will come from this presidency. What I told Buster, and what I am trying to think myself, is that come January we just have to hope that he makes good choices. But really, WHAT THE FUCK GOOD CAN COME OF THIS??? I cannot think of one good thing he could do.

There is a some hope that he will scare the shit out of so many people over the next two years that they will turn out in droves to elect more centrist leaning politicians on the local, state, and national level. Especially, on the national level. In two years a large number of Senate and House seats come up for election. The situation is ripe for the same thing to happen to the Republicans that happened to the Democrats in 2010.

Of course, that really depends on how long the "angry white male" voter and attention span can last. There is no doubt that they were paying attention this time. What frightens me is that the people who voted for Trump were not all angry white males. One poll I saw last night stated that approx. 37% of the Latino voters in Florida were voting for Trump. How many others voted for him that pretended they were not? There are a lot of scared and angry people in this country right now. And they found someone who is just as angry as they are.

Thumper wrote:I'm trying to figure out how to explain this/apologize to my daughter.

you voted, didn't you? so nothing to apologize for.

explain? single-issue voters(right to lifers esp), misogyny, the disaffected lower-middle class and fear/hatred of the other. sad and frightening.

Swift wrote:

Rommie wrote:I just donated to the ACLU, Planned Parenthood, the Southern Poverty Law Center, and the Union of Concerned Scientists. Feels like too little too late more than anything, but if anyone has some other organizations that can use extra cash right now let me know, I'm in a generous mood right now.

Are you stealing my list? All good choices.

heifer international, unfpa, habitat for humanity, pbs ...