Shutdown!

[Swift]

CID... Two questions....
1. Have you looked into the ACA? You may be eligible for free or low cost health insurance if you don't have any... But that's not the real question... The real question is... Did you know that the ACA WAS already funded BEFORE all this started? And... It was a law, for 3 years, 42 attempts at repeal, one SCOTUS decision, and a presidential election, where it was a pretty big deal? In that time, if these law makers didn't take the time to aqaint themselves with what was in the law... That's their issue... Not the rest of the country's... They need to get the fuck over it. (Please pardon the language)
And 2. You do realize that this shutdown is going to hold up federal school funding... I'm using Fishers Post 9/11 GI Bill... My tuition still isn't paid for this semester.... Fun? WOW! It's going to hurt you, Cookie, Norm, me, SonOBrite and anyone else that's getting Pell, and any other grants, student loans or any other federal or VA funding for school....

Just saying....

Yes and yes.

Did you also know that the concept of the ACA, a marketplace of private insurance open to everyone, with some government support for those who could not afford it, was a REPUBLICAN idea, and that Newt Gingrich was one of the big advocates of it? It was proposed as a more free-market alternative to Clinton's health care proposals, which were much more of a socialized medicine plan. And it was strongly based on Massachusetts' plan, which was put in place by REPUBLICAN governor Mitt Rommney (and as best as I can tell, has worked pretty well).

[Sigma_Orionis]

And proposed originally by them pinko commies at the Heritage Foundation...., who now want to know nothing about it

Notice I am NOT quoting MSNBC....

[Sigma_Orionis]

Hard-line conservatives see victory in debt limit standoff

If the world economy tanks due to this bastards and you damned gringos don't do anything about it. You'll prove Chavez right.

[brite]

CID... Two questions....
1. Have you looked into the ACA? You may be eligible for free or low cost health insurance if you don't have any... But that's not the real question... The real question is... Did you know that the ACA WAS already funded BEFORE all this started? And... It was a law, for 3 years, 42 attempts at repeal, one SCOTUS decision, and a presidential election, where it was a pretty big deal? In that time, if these law makers didn't take the time to aqaint themselves with what was in the law... That's their issue... Not the rest of the country's... They need to get the fuck over it. (Please pardon the language)
And 2. You do realize that this shutdown is going to hold up federal school funding... I'm using Fishers Post 9/11 GI Bill... My tuition still isn't paid for this semester.... Fun? WOW! It's going to hurt you, Cookie, Norm, me, SonOBrite and anyone else that's getting Pell, and any other grants, student loans or any other federal or VA funding for school....

Just saying....

Yes and yes.

Did you also know that the concept of the ACA, a marketplace of private insurance open to everyone, with some government support for those who could not afford it, was a REPUBLICAN idea, and that Newt Gingrich was one of the big advocates of it? It was proposed as a more free-market alternative to Clinton's health care proposals, which were much more of a socialized medicine plan. And it was strongly based on Massachusetts' plan, which was put in place by REPUBLICAN governor Mitt Rommney (and as best as I can tell, has worked pretty well).

Yup to all of it... Heritage Foundation... half the Republicans problem is (as I see it...) that a Democrat actually made it fly, nationally....

[brite]

Hard-line conservatives see victory in debt limit standoff

If the world economy tanks due to this bastards and you damned gringos don't do anything about it. You'll prove Chavez right.

This is what I just published as an op-ed... it's long... but I think it sums things up....

Governing by Crisis

Today is day eight of the governmental shutdown. What does this mean? It means that veterans who are relying on the 9/11 GI Bill to go to school won’t have their tuition paid, won’t get their living stipend or their book stipend. It means that mothers with very young children (between newborns and age five) and pregnant women who qualify won’t receive supplemental nutrition, in the form of WIC. It means that almost ten thousand children won’t be going to Head Start. It means that contractors, who form the backbone of our government, won’t get paid at all. It means that while furloughed government workers will get paid, they would much rather be at their jobs, doing the work that they are paid to do. In the meantime, our elected officials will get paid. They made sure of that with the 27th Amendment.

And yet, the government is at a stand still. With forty-nine members of the House, and five members in the Senate, the Tea Party has managed to push the Republican Party so far to the right, and force this shutdown with one demand. Defund the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act.

There is only one problem with this demand… you can’t defund something that is already fully funded. It would be like defunding Social Security or Medicare.

These are the same people who have voted forty-two times to repeal this law, and failed. These are the same people who held the country hostage in 2011, and forced concessions out of the President during the debt ceiling crisis, resulting not only in the sequester, but in the downgrade of our nation’s credit rating.

They want piecemeal legislation to fund things that they think will make them look good… funding for the NIH, that took a huge hit in the sequester, because who needs research into cancer cures? Suddenly, with parents complaining that their children aren’t being allowed into the cancer drug trials that they were supposed to start, Congress wants to fund the NIH, but only at the post sequester levels. (The NIH lost 1.55 billion in funding due to the sequester in FY 2013) (National Intitutes of Health, 2013)

The Senate Budget Committee has requested nineteen times to conference with the House Budget Committee, since last April. Nineteen times. And has been blocked at every turn. Not by Harry Reid, as the Tea Party stalwarts would have you believe, but by the Tea Party itself, in the Senate.

1. 4/23 Senator Reid requested unanimous consent to go to conference, Senator Toomey blocked.
2. 5/6 Senator Reid requested unanimous consent to go to conference, Senator Cruz blocked.
3. 5/7 Senator Murray requested unanimous consent to go to conference, Senator McConnell blocked.
4. 5/8 Senator Warner asked unanimous consent to go to conference, Senator McConnell blocked.
5. 5/9 Senator Murray asked unanimous consent to go to conference, Senator McConnell blocked.
6. 5/14 Senator Warner asked unanimous consent to go to conference, and Senator McConnell blocked.
7. 5/15 Senator Wyden asked unanimous consent to go to conference, and Senator McConnell blocked.
8. 5/16 Senator Murray asked unanimous consent to go to conference, and Senator Lee blocked.
9. 5/21 Senator Murray asked unanimous consent to go to conference, and Senator Paul blocked.
10. 5/22 Senator Kaine asked unanimous consent to go to conference, and Senator Rubio blocked.
11. 5/23 Senator McCaskill asked unanimous consent to go to conference, and Senator Lee blocked.
12. 6/4 Senator Murray asked unanimous consent to go to conference, and Senator Rubio blocked.
13. 6/12 Senator Kaine asked unanimous consent to go to conference, and Senator Lee blocked.
14. 6/19 Senator Murray asked unanimous consent to go to conference, and Senator Toomey blocked.
15. 6/26 Senator Murray requested unanimous consent to go to conference, Senator Cruz blocked.
16. 7/11 Senator Murray requested unanimous consent to go to conference, Senator Marco Rubio blocked.
17. 7/17 Senator Murray requested unanimous consent to go to conference, Senator Mike Lee blocked.
18. 8/1 Senator Durbin requested unanimous consent to go to conference, Senator Marco Rubio blocked.
19. 10/2 Senator Murray requested unanimous consent to go to conference, Senator Toomey blocked.
(Seitz-Wald, 2013)

Because, in case you flunked Civics 101, the House does not do the budget on it’s own.

The way this works is that the President does his budget, more of a wish list on what he would like to see funded, and hands it down to the Congress. They look at it and each Budget Committee hammers out what they figure they can do, based on how much they think is coming in. Then they go to committee together, the House and the Senate Budget Committees, and come to a consensus. Each presents that budget to their respective groups and it is voted on, passed (or not, in which case it’s back to the drawing board…) and if it’s passed it goes back the President for his signature. And VIOLA! We have a budget!

The President has presented a budget every year since 2009 (for FY 2010, 2011, 2012 and 2013). The Senate has had a budget ready every year since 2009 (for FY 2010, 2011, 2012 and 2013) and the House has had the same budget for the last four years, Paul Ryan’s budget, which he can’t seem to explain, without getting too “wonky” on us.

But we can’t seem to get these into committee. So, we have no budget. This is not on the President; he just doesn’t have that kind of power. This is on the Senate and on the House. And on the forty-nine House members and five Senate members who make up the Tea Party Caucus. (Wikipeadia)

House Tea Party Caucus
• Michele Bachmann, Minnesota, Chair
• Joe Barton, Texas
• Gus Bilirakis, Florida
• Rob Bishop, Utah
• Diane Black, Tennessee
• Michael C. Burgess, Texas
• Paul Broun, Georgia
• John Carter, Texas
• Bill Cassidy, Louisiana
• Howard Coble, North Carolina
• Ander Crenshaw, Florida
• John Culberson, Texas
• Jeff Duncan, South Carolina
• Blake Farenthold, Texas
• Stephen Fincher, Tennessee
• John Fleming, Louisiana
• Trent Franks, Arizona
• Phil Gingrey, Georgia
• Louie Gohmert, Texas
• Vicky Hartzler, Missouri
• Tim Huelskamp, Kansas
• Lynn Jenkins, Kansas
• Steve King, Iowa
• Doug Lamborn, Colorado
• Blaine Luetkemeyer, Missouri
• Cynthia Lummis, Wyoming
• Kenny Marchant, Texas
• Tom McClintock, California
• David McKinley, West Virginia
• Gary Miller, California
• Mick Mulvaney, South Carolina
• Randy Neugebauer, Texas
• Rich Nugent, Florida
• Steven Palazzo, Mississippi
• Steve Pearce, New Mexico
• Ted Poe, Texas
• Tom Price, Georgia
• Phil Roe, Tennessee
• Dennis A. Ross, Florida
• Ed Royce, California
• Steve Scalise, Louisiana
• Pete Sessions, Texas
• Adrian Smith, Nebraska
• Lamar S. Smith, Texas
• Tim Walberg, Michigan
• Lynn Westmoreland, Georgia
• Joe Wilson, South Carolina





Senate Tea Party Caucus
• Mike Lee (Utah)[5]
• Jerry Moran (Kansas)
• Rand Paul (Kentucky)[5]
• Tim Scott (South Carolina)
• Ted Cruz (Texas)

This is not something to be proud of. We have become the laughing stock of the world. We, who once, rebuilt the world, after World War I and II, Who brought the world the cures for small pox, measles, rubella and once insisted that medical research should be unfettered and was important, and created places like the Mayo Clinic and the National Institutes of Health. We are the country that will create economic havoc through out the world when our economy crashes in nine days, because we default on our debt, because of the actions of fifty-four people, for whom the election in 2012 didn’t go their way, and they can’t manage to get the votes to overturn one piece of legislation that they don’t care for.

They call the rest of us un-American.
Works Cited
National Intitutes of Health. (2013, June 3). Retrieved October 8, 2013, from Fact sheet: Impact of Sequestration on the National Institutes of Health: http://www.nih.gov/news/health/jun2013/nih-03.htm
Seitz-Wald, A. (2013, October 7). 19 Times Democrats Tried to Negotiate With Republicans. Retrieved October 8, 2013, from National Journal: http://www.nationaljournal.com/congress ... d=mostread
Wikipeadia. (n.d.). Tea Party Caucus. Retrieved October 8, 2013, from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_Party_Caucus

[Cyborg Girl]

Awesomely stated, brite. I just hope people will listen.

[Sigma_Orionis]

The date I gave for the Looney Squad to give up on their stupidity is Oct. 10, I think that even if the idiots continue on their folly, Most of the Pubs' backers will grab the spineless republican moderates by the neck and explain that they have two choices: either face a Tea Party Nut at the 2014 elections or lose to a Dem because they'll get no funding at all.

If that doesn't work, there are people claiming that the HNIC can invoke the US Constitution's 14th amendment and send them all to hell.

The HNIC & Co claim that the 14th amendment doesn't allow him to do that. Being a complete outsider (and with no knowledge of US Constitutional Law) I of course don't know about that. I presume that the consequences would still not be ideal, for instance:

- The House might impeach him (while the Senate laughs)
- It would set a unwanted precedent on presidential power, something you gringos are not particularly fond of (and judging from countries like mine, where the executive has virtually unlimited power, I can't say I blame you for it)
- There would still be an impact on the world economy, at least, there would be questions about the full faith and credit of the US debt (and that would be highly undesirable, you damned imperialist gringos ).

Still if this mess continues by October 16th, the alternative is much worse.

[SciFiFisher]

I am giving them until October 16th. October 17th is when we officially hit the debt ceiling limit and cannot continue to borrow to fund the government. On October 18th the US Government will be limited to spending only the money they bring in each day. Literally, they will have to decide at the end of each day how much money came in and what to spend it on.

I figure the Mad Hatter Tea Party affiliation won't budge. At that time the rest of the republicans will have to publically break up with them and pass a continuing budget resolution, an actual budget, or pass a half assed measure that says we can raise the debt ceiling but only for another 30 or 60 days to give the President and the Democrats "time to negotiate in good faith with us".

My money is on the half assed measure. They can afford to be obnoxious because this is an off election year and they think the American voter's memory will fade by next year when many of them are up for re-election in 2014. I am hoping they are wrong. But if I had to bet money I would be afraid to place that bet.

My guess is that they think that they can get more funding cuts and tax breaks for the "job creators". Part of the reason IMO is that POTUS and the Democrats did sort of give in last time. Which gave us the Sequester. And everyone is saying "see the sequester wasn't so bad. The world didn't end. The economy continued to grow. Less is More!".... "Let's do it again!"

[Morrolan]

you want to read 'bad'? have a look here:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-10-08/12-ominous-warnings-what-us-default-would-mean-global-economy

well done, guys...

better start finding myself a shopping trolley and some bags for my wife so we're ahead of the queue as new bag lady and homeless man.

[brite]

While the 14th Amendment is an alternative... it's not a good one. The 14th Amendment allows for the full faith and credit of the US debt, but, it sets a dangerous precedent. If this president uses the 14th Amendment to bypass the Congress, what happens when the next president doesn't like what Congress does, where the budget is concerned?

Mr Obama is a Constitutional scholar... he understand what this means, and is not about to go that route, no matter how tempting it may seem...

[code monkey]

oh brite, you've given such masterful ummaries of the situation and yet you've missed the basic rule for republican decision-making.

is obama for it? then we're against it.

[code monkey]

The Affordable Care Act (and if that ain't a sizable lie, nothing is) was the biggest example of political irresponsibility that I think I've ever seen. Remember Ms. Pelosi's famous line about "...we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of controversy...”? Absolutely irresponsible --What happened to knowing what you were voting on BEFORE you voted on it?????

consider please that she said 'so that you can find out what is in it', not so that i can find out what is in it. furthermore, until it was passed and active, nobody knew how it would work in that nobody could know how many people would take advantage of it or how they would.

as for it not being affordable, as a society, we can't afford not to have everyone covered. a shocking number of people are driven into bankruptcy every year because of medical bills. no matter how young, healthy and free of risk factors one is, one can be hit by a disease or accident. medical costs are sky-high. when michael first met with his oncologist, after discussing the dx, she laid out the various treatment options and told him that, since he had good insurance, they could make their choices without having to consider cost!

[brite]

oh brite, you've given such masterful ummaries of the situation and yet you've missed the basic rule for republican decision-making.

is obama for it? then we're against it.

Thank you, ma'am...

as for the second... I'm not ignoring that fact... I'm just choosing not to address it, as it pisses me off, and I'm trying to be a good girl....

[Sigma_Orionis]

I am giving them until October 16th. October 17th is when we officially hit the debt ceiling limit and cannot continue to borrow to fund the government. On October 18th the US Government will be limited to spending only the money they bring in each day. Literally, they will have to decide at the end of each day how much money came in and what to spend it on.

And that's what the ignorant who refuse to understand that the economy of a nation is VERY different from a household budget want.

I figure the Mad Hatter Tea Party affiliation won't budge. At that time the rest of the republicans will have to publically break up with them and pass a continuing budget resolution, an actual budget, or pass a half assed measure that says we can raise the debt ceiling but only for another 30 or 60 days to give the President and the Democrats "time to negotiate in good faith with us".

Sure, I (Now) agree that the Looney Squad is not going to budge, I was expecting that the rest of the Republican Party (who have lost its balls) would would finally grab them by the neck and kick them out. This is been going on since the early 2000s: First pandering to the Religious Right and now that they've discovered that John Q. Public really couldn't care less about them, they've tried to resell them as "Economically Responsible".

My money is on the half assed measure. They can afford to be obnoxious because this is an off election year and they think the American voter's memory will fade by next year when many of them are up for re-election in 2014. I am hoping they are wrong. But if I had to bet money I would be afraid to place that bet.

Yeah I've heard the quote “Nobody ever lost a nickel betting against the intelligence of the American public. ” several times. Hopefully, you will be wrong.

My guess is that they think that they can get more funding cuts and tax breaks for the "job creators". Part of the reason IMO is that POTUS and the Democrats did sort of give in last time. Which gave us the Sequester. And everyone is saying "see the sequester wasn't so bad. The world didn't end. The economy continued to grow. Less is More!".... "Let's do it again!"

If they want to hold your country's economy hostage and John. Q. Public lets them, there isn't much anybody else can say. HOWEVER, if they pretend to hold the world economy hostage AND John Q. Public lets them, that's another matter altogether. Unfortunately the two right now are inseparable. THAT's when everyone who has ever complained about the supremacy of the US gets vindicated.

[SciFiFisher]

[

My guess is that they think that they can get more funding cuts and tax breaks for the "job creators". Part of the reason IMO is that POTUS and the Democrats did sort of give in last time. Which gave us the Sequester. And everyone is saying "see the sequester wasn't so bad. The world didn't end. The economy continued to grow. Less is More!".... "Let's do it again!"

If they want to hold your country's economy hostage and John. Q. Public lets them, there isn't much anybody else can say. HOWEVER, if they pretend to hold the world economy hostage AND John Q. Public lets them, that's another matter altogether. Unfortunately the two right now are inseparable. THAT's when everyone who has ever complained about the supremacy of the US gets vindicated.

How do you like our American Exceptionalism now world?

[Sigma_Orionis]

How do you like our American Exceptionalism now world?

SELF-MADE BASTARD

[cid]

The Affordable Care Act (and if that ain't a sizable lie, nothing is) was the biggest example of political irresponsibility that I think I've ever seen. Remember Ms. Pelosi's famous line about "...we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of controversy...”? Absolutely irresponsible -- she shoulda been drawn and quartered on the Capitol steps, after being shot and hung on the National Mall. What happened to knowing what you were voting on BEFORE you voted on it?????

cid, the ACA was written, passed and upheld for you. Not me - I have good insurance and do not benefit much from it. But you do, or can if you just take advantage of the law.

Pelosi knew well the provisions of the ACA when she pushed it in Congress. Her statement was referring to people who railed against it by making up stupid specters like death panels, etc.

And finally, do you really think advocating the murder of a US congresswoman appropriate in any form or forum? I have had enough of that sort of language from the extremists in the GOP.

1) -- Our ability to detect and to tolerate sarcasm is a bit thin today, what? Blowing off some steam does not equal the desire to shed blood. However, Ms Pelosi's statement still ranks very high on my list of irresponsibility -- people elected her to represent them, not blindly follow party dictates.

2) -- the ACA was written, passed, and most likely upheld to follow a political agenda. This is a case of someone(s) determining that since they're in office and have a majority in the legislature, they can push through whatever they choose. (Note that I'm not saying it's the first time it's happened, or that the other side hasn't done it too...).

The ACA is a disaster in the making. It's been 'the law of the land' for 3+ years, yet the data requirements to get it rolling still don't work. All the personal information needed to enroll is now going to be in the hands of the government -- can you say "1984"? And the IRS is going to administer things? This is HEALTH CARE -- why is the IRS in charge, and not HHS?

One of the most terrifying and untruthful sentences in the English language is "Hello, I'm from the federal government -- I'm here to help you...".

[Cyborg Girl]

I hate to say it, cid, but the Secret Service doesn't always understand sarcasm.

Re irresponsibility, I can think of many cases much worse (including several by Democratic politicians).

Edit: let me put it this way... How many lives do you think have been or will be lost due to the ACA?

(And keep in mind that ~50,000 people die every year, from inability to afford treatment for treatable diseases. )

[geonuc]

1) -- Our ability to detect and to tolerate sarcasm is a bit thin today, what? Blowing off some steam does not equal the desire to shed blood.

I don't know about your own, but mine is operating just fine. I just don't like that brand of sarcasm.

[brite]

(And keep in mind that ~50,000 people die every year, from inability to afford treatment for treatable diseases. )

Not to mention the people that went bankrupt every year because of catastrophic illness, every year. Mom's final tally was over 1.5 million in bills, after insurance. Her estate (such as it was) went bankrupt.

And here's something to consider... if it weren't for the VA, I would be ineligible for insurance. I have a chronic condition (fibromyagia) and a preexisting one (diabetes). Even with the VA, I was paying $7 per script, per month, plus $150 a month for one script that wasn't on the VA formulary, until I married Fisher. Now I have Tricare and the VA. Unless I drive the 50 miles to and from the Air Force base, where I can get my meds for free, I have to buy them on the economy... $51 for 3 months each for 2 of my meds and $15 each for the rest. We aren't eligible for the ACA.

Cookie, on the other hand, can get insurance for $38 a month, with the ACA. A HUGE difference from the $180 a month that Tricare YA wants.

So is it a bad thing? Not from where I'm standing...

So rail all you want. Don't look at it. Bitch, moan, whine and complain. Buy into the death panels, the down fall of civilization and the harbingers of doom, gloom and end times... but understand this... if it hadn't been for all the whining that the Republicans had done in the first place... we'd have had a healthcare system more like the one in Canada, instead of this bullshit.

[Morrolan]

So rail all you want. Don't look at it. Bitch, moan, whine and complain. Buy into the death panels, the down fall of civilization and the harbingers of doom, gloom and end times... but understand this... if it hadn't been for all the whining that the Republicans had done in the first place... we'd have had a healthcare system more like the one in Canada, instead of this bullshit.

[Sigma_Orionis]

Looks like Fisher is right....

As Pressure Mounts, House G.O.P. Weighs Short-Term Debt Deal

OTOH the guys that hold the purse strings (or as the Argentinians say "hold the pan by the handle") seem to be getting fed up with the Tea Party Nuts....

Business Groups See Loss of Sway Over House G.O.P.

“We are looking at ways to counter the rise of an ideological brand of conservatism that, for lack of a better word, is more anti-establishment than it has been in the past,” said David French, the top lobbyist at the National Retail Federation. “We have come to the conclusion that sitting on the sidelines is not good enough.”

Joe Echevarria, the chief executive of Deloitte, the accounting and consulting firm, said, “I’m a Republican by definition and by registration, but the party seems to have split into two factions.”

Boy, CEOs are really smart cookies, it took this one only 5 years to figure that one out.

[SciFiFisher]

How do you like our American Exceptionalism now world?

SELF-MADE BASTARD

[brite]

How do you like our American Exceptionalism now world?

SELF-MADE BASTARD

I come home from school and the first thing I hear is "Sigma's calling me names!!!!!!" Poor baby.... NOT!

[Sigma_Orionis]

Well, "Evil Gringo Imperialist Infidel" can only be used so many times before it gets boring