FWIS3

This article seems to be missing the point.

The quote below seems like the most relevant bit of this article:

Also, the militia have set up checkpoints on the roads, where residents have to prove they live there before being allowed to drive on.

How does 'fuck off' sound? I would not feel more free with these idiots around. I'd feel less free. I find this situation very scary, and I know too many people that like this nonsense.

Is the reason that they're not sending the fucking cavalry in to arrest these idiots that they're afraid of another Waco?

The Supreme Canuck wrote:Is the reason that they're not sending the fucking cavalry in to arrest these idiots that they're afraid of another Waco?

That would be my guess. I know that if I lived in that area, and someone stopped me with a gun, I would fucking call the police.

The Supreme Canuck wrote:Is the reason that they're not sending the fucking cavalry in to arrest these idiots that they're afraid of another Waco?

As far as I am concerned, they ought to send UN peace-keepers, just to rile the idiots up.

SciFi Chick wrote:That would be my guess. I know that if I lived in that area, and someone stopped me with a gun, I would fucking call the police.

Hm. Irritating as hell, if that's the case. I mean, I understand the urge not to botch things a second time, but that's a reason to be more careful, not to entirely abandon enforcing the law.

Among the many idiotic things, is the yahoos were often photographed in front of huge American flags, the flag of the government that they supposedly don't recognize.

I also love that these "brave" patriots who were going to hide behind their women.

On a serious note, I can understand the Feds being cautious about another Waco. But they seriously have to do something, they can't let this lawlessness go unpunished.

On an emotional level, I want the whole lot of them, the Bundy's and the crazy militia folks, locked up for a long list of crimes, starting with interferring with a Federal agent, not to mention theft of government property. As far as I'm concerned, these folks are criminals and terrorists.

If I lived in this town and one of these idiots stopped me on the road, I would be on 9-1-1 in a heartbeat, and I would expect the sheriff and the state police to lock them up.

I'm with ya swift. 100%.

Avoiding another Waco IS good.

You can't send in troops (federal) due to Posse Comitatitus. You CAN send in National Guard... but you run the risk of them siding with the morons... and the Governor seems to be siding with the morons... SO... we may end up waiting this out to avoid another Ruby Ridge or Waco....

Honestly the more I look back on the 90s vs what's happening today the more I'm surprised we didn't have a Waco/ Ruby Ridge/ Oklahoma City type situation in recent years.

Also, I don't understand why the fuck a guy can tell me to not go down a road even if I don't live there? Are these roads private? If not, then Jesus that's scary stuff.

Rommie wrote:Also, I don't understand why the fuck a guy can tell me to not go down a road even if I don't live there? Are these roads private? If not, then Jesus that's scary stuff.

Legally he probably can't. Maybe forcible confinement if they stop you and prevent you leaving. Maybe threatening with a firearm if they have them (which they do). Maybe just simple uttering threats. Maybe assault. Maybe assault with a weapon. Maybe something about vigilantism. Maybe something about usurping the government's monopoly on the legitimate use of force. Hell, if this were Canada, it's definitely assault:

Criminal Code of Canada wrote:265. (1) A person commits an assault when

[...]

(c) while openly wearing or carrying a weapon or an imitation thereof, he accosts or impedes another person or begs.

Unless, of course, there's something stupid in the way the law works down there, which wouldn't surprise me in the least. Dollars-to-doughnuts, there's nothing even similar to that assault provision in Nevada. The other things, though? Probably they apply. 'Course, I don't know US or Nevada law, so...

Practically, though... well. Guns. Lots of guns. And the so-called moral justification to use them. Freely.

The Supreme Canuck wrote:Unless, of course, there's something stupid in the way the law works down there, which wouldn't surprise me in the least. Dollars-to-doughnuts, there's nothing even similar to that assault provision in Nevada. The other things, though? Probably they apply. 'Course, I don't know US or Nevada law, so...

Practically, though... well. Guns. Lots of guns. And the so-called moral justification to use them. Freely.

I seriously doubt what these militia are doing is legal. I think it is purely political.

Let's be honest, if it was a bunch of African-American Black Panthers, with semi-automatic weapons, saying you can't come into our neighborhood unless you live here, there would be State Police, National Guard, and Federal agents all set for a firefight.

just shoot the fuckers, Waco be damned.

So US is too scared to reign in nutball gun toting militia men? If an armed patrol stopped me near my home and asked me to prove where I lived, and the government did not respond by sending in troops to arrest them all, I would be looking around for my next country of residence.

Home of the brave and the land of the freeeeeeeeee.....

squ1d wrote:So US is too scared to reign in nutball gun toting militia men? If an armed patrol stopped me near my home and asked me to prove where I lived, and the government did not respond by sending in troops to arrest them all, I would be looking around for my next country of residence.

Home of the brave and the land of the freeeeeeeeee.....

IRC the issue at hand was these guys have freely admitted that if the government came in with deadly force they would hide behind their women because they know how awful it would look if the federal government was shown "shooting on" a bunch of women who have no weapons.

If innocent people get hurt (and it looks like these guys are itching for that to happen) you know it would look bad for the feds no matter what these guys had done before- and not just from the Fox News right wingers where they'd surely use the incident to inspire a bunch of other gun nuts to do the same. So I do not blame the folks in charge for being extremely cautious right now.

Edit: found the quote from Cliven Bundy on this: “We were actually strategizing to put all the women up at the front. If they are going to start shooting, it’s going to be women that are going to be televised all across the world getting shot by these rogue federal officers.”

Cause real men hide behind their loved ones for their cause!

Rommie wrote:Edit: found the quote from Cliven Bundy on this: “We were actually strategizing to put all the women up at the front. If they are going to start shooting, it’s going to be women that are going to be televised all across the world getting shot by these rogue federal officers.”

Cause real men hide behind their loved ones for their cause!

I love Stephen Colbert's take on this. He said something about, don't worry about the women, because they'll be hiding behind a line of children.

The Supreme Canuck wrote:Unless, of course, there's something stupid in the way the law works down there, which wouldn't surprise me in the least. Dollars-to-doughnuts, there's nothing even similar to that assault provision in Nevada. The other things, though? Probably they apply. 'Course, I don't know US or Nevada law, so...

Practically, though... well. Guns. Lots of guns. And the so-called moral justification to use them. Freely.

Just have a think about this, the 2nd amendment is meant to allow a armed militia to stop a militant government.
One can argue that is exactly what they are doing.
Remember the Declaration of Independence was about not paying taxes to England.

This is truly a fucked up situation. I can see that many if not almost all the 2nd amendment crowd will side with the above view, and they have the guns.
Yet another reason the US is headed to some nasty shit in the future.

As far as I'm concerned though, the US government is pushing the same route that England did back when they declared independence.
They are taxing to pay for wars, much like England did, they are taxing people that they think are easy targets yet avoiding the big companies and the rich. Sounds a bit too familiar to me.

While I don't agree with this bunch of yahoo's, the thing is that the US is really headed for a major change.
How that change happens and what the cost of it will be is the big question.
I just see it divided and the division is getting worse.
At some point, things will break and the shit will fly.

As usual however, those who can do anything about it, pay no attention to these clear warning signs.
They just keep trying to push the same agenda that got them in this mess.

Rommie wrote:IRC the issue at hand was these guys have freely admitted that if the government came in with deadly force they would hide behind their women because they know how awful it would look if the federal government was shown "shooting on" a bunch of women who have no weapons.

If innocent people get hurt (and it looks like these guys are itching for that to happen) you know it would look bad for the feds no matter what these guys had done before- and not just from the Fox News right wingers where they'd surely use the incident to inspire a bunch of other gun nuts to do the same. So I do not blame the folks in charge for being extremely cautious right now.

Edit: found the quote from Cliven Bundy on this: “We were actually strategizing to put all the women up at the front. If they are going to start shooting, it’s going to be women that are going to be televised all across the world getting shot by these rogue federal officers.”

Cause real men hide behind their loved ones for their cause!

I (sort of) understand the sensitivities here but essentially, a group of militia are holding the town to ransom because the government will not act, and that is fundamentally fucked up and exactly why I'd be scouting for a new home! The system is broke.

squ1d wrote:

Rommie wrote:IRC the issue at hand was these guys have freely admitted that if the government came in with deadly force they would hide behind their women because they know how awful it would look if the federal government was shown "shooting on" a bunch of women who have no weapons.

If innocent people get hurt (and it looks like these guys are itching for that to happen) you know it would look bad for the feds no matter what these guys had done before- and not just from the Fox News right wingers where they'd surely use the incident to inspire a bunch of other gun nuts to do the same. So I do not blame the folks in charge for being extremely cautious right now.

Edit: found the quote from Cliven Bundy on this: “We were actually strategizing to put all the women up at the front. If they are going to start shooting, it’s going to be women that are going to be televised all across the world getting shot by these rogue federal officers.”

Cause real men hide behind their loved ones for their cause!

I (sort of) understand the sensitivities here but essentially, a group of militia are holding the town to ransom because the government will not act, and that is fundamentally fucked up and exactly why I'd be scouting for a new home! The system is broke.

I'm not that convinced that the US Government backed down because of the fear of shooting women angle.
The official policy is not to negotiate with terrorists. These guys are behaving pretty much the same way as the people the US has condemned, e.g. Palestine.

The real pickle I see here is that if the government does nothing, there will be more of these things happening.
If the botch it up, there will be a near revolution since these nut jobs have so much support from the 2nd amendment crowd.
To top it off almost everyone I've spoken to that has, the 2nd is a gift from God mentality, hates Obama and are running around with itchy trigger fingers about anything he does, or sometimes, has nothing to do with but gets blamed for anyway.
They seem to want a fight, a war with all the glory, and just need an excuse to start one.

As brite mentioned, sending in the National Guard might result in them siding with the nutters.
She isn't wrong. This country is that divided, the chain of command is that broken.

I was discussing this with a friend in Australia last night. He heard nothing about it yet.
He was just blown away.
If that happened in Australia it would be over in about 15 minutes.
Actually, it would never have happened, but assuming armed people were stopping residents and making check points, it would be a considered a national threat and the appropriate action taken. The results would be spectacularly bad for them.

If no action was taken swiftly then I'd be 100% with squid, get the fuck out. When your government allow's armed militia to set up check points and stop the citizens of your country and it does nothing, you fail totally as a government of the people. Or at you finally show your colors that signal to the World that you never were about that. Take your pick.

After a bit of digging, it seems like the armed checkpoints thing might not be true. Namely, if you read the link, all accounts of this going on are secondhand and none of the local papers are able to confirm the story.

Breathe (a little more) easy guys.

I certainly hope you're right.
Because if you're not that is some screwed up shit.

Rommie wrote:After a bit of digging, it seems like the armed checkpoints thing might not be true. Namely, if you read the link, all accounts of this going on are secondhand and none of the local papers are able to confirm the story.

Breathe (a little more) easy guys.

In the proud tradition of Fox News, I'm not going to let annoying things like facts and reality interfere with my finely honed rage and still believe we are under attack. TO THE RAMPARTS!