FWIS3

As per usual, I get some of my best news from The Daily Show

Until now, it hadn't really clicked with me that denying science doesn't just occur in religious circles or conservative politics. Very disturbing. I'm so sick of people thinking science is a belief system.

My own pet non-science believing thing is GMOs, but I just think there hasn't been enough study of them. However, I could be wrong, and I'm always open to that. I have a friend who's a scientist, and he's convinced there is no problem with GMOs. Maybe we need to start looking at what GMOs we're speaking about since everything gets modified, whether it's in a lab or by splicing two plants together. But that's another discussion.

There is, however, consensus and plenty of evidence for climate change and the use of vaccines. And yet, conservatives refuse to believe in climate change, and lots of liberals are refusing to believe in the power of vaccines. At least here in the U.S. Not sure about other places. I think vaccines should be required by law, because too many people are now at risk as a result of the anti-vaccine movement.

I'm mainly posting this because I was really surprised to see that it was liberals who are pushing this nonsense. Glad to have that fallacy out of my head.

SciFi Chick wrote:As per usual, I get some of my best news from The Daily Show

Until now, it hadn't really clicked with me that denying science doesn't just occur in religious circles or conservative politics. Very disturbing. I'm so sick of people thinking science is a belief system.

My own pet non-science believing thing is GMOs, but I just think there hasn't been enough study of them. However, I could be wrong, and I'm always open to that. I have a friend who's a scientist, and he's convinced there is no problem with GMOs. Maybe we need to start looking at what GMOs we're speaking about since everything gets modified, whether it's in a lab or by splicing two plants together. But that's another discussion.

There is, however, consensus and plenty of evidence for climate change and the use of vaccines. And yet, conservatives refuse to believe in climate change, and lots of liberals are refusing to believe in the power of vaccines. At least here in the U.S. Not sure about other places. I think vaccines should be required by law, because too many people are now at risk as a result of the anti-vaccine movement.

I'm mainly posting this because I was really surprised to see that it was liberals who are pushing this nonsense. Glad to have that fallacy out of my head.

OMG, nothing gets me more riled up than the anti-vaccination debate. Ususally I just get so frustrated about it I just can't even naskd;glha dfgblafghaeui;hsd;kagnsd;vklansfklaweiofg awiogadoa

It's pretty mind numbingly dumb.
Love the reasons they deny the science.
Vaccines didn't stop the illnesses, it was when we got rid of horses pooping on the streets!

No one seems to understand double blind testing.
Though we also seem to have double blind morons not seeing what's right before them.

And if it only hurt them and their kids, I wouldn't mind, but this is going to set vaccines back, because the diseases will mutate. I'm with pumpkin:

vaccination should be mandatory and unvaccinated kids should not be allowed to attend schools.

Morrolan wrote:vaccination should be mandatory and unvaccinated kids should not be allowed to attend schools.

Most schools have a very enforceable policy that they can quarantine unvaccinated kids and send them home for the duration if there is an outbreak. Unfortunately, by the time everyone realizes there is an outbreak it's usually the unvaccinated kids who have been exposed who are causing it.

unfortunately there are states that allow parents to opt out on the basis of personal belief.

Indeed. (Curiously, the anti-vaxxers in the Netherlands are also the religious folks, and we had a measles outbreak in those areas that affected several thousand people.)

I read an interesting article recently that I thought touched on this topic well, The Death of Expertise. TL, DR: article was talking about how it's a relatively modern phenomena that everyone is equally qualified on topics because everyone can Google stuff, so why trust a doctor versus a blogger? (The article also went beyond science to point out how it used to be common to invite professors to Washington to discuss political issues who were experts, but these days that wouldn't happen unless said professor was well connected politically.)

It kinda makes me wonder because one of the biggest reasons I wanted to get my doctorate is I'm definitely in a field where expertise matters, and this is a de facto way to show you have it. But in most fields these days I have noticed it's very trendy to bang the "college degrees are a waste and don't teach you anything" drum- don't get me wrong, some are, but it still galls me to know some people think they know from Google more than someone who dedicates years of their life to get, say, a doctorate in atmospheric science or medicine. And that these people are on some vendetta to lie- trust me, if we did, we'd have a lot more money.

Darwin's theory in action.

Nitpick: Darwin described survival, not of the fittest in general, but of the best adapted. So far technology has made us kings in that department. Unfortunately having a population of ~7 billion creates a whole new set of problems you have to adapt to, many of which relate more to behavior and psychology than to the environment and technology. It's not good enough to have the technology if you can't convince people to use it properly.

I'm fervently hoping we don't Darwin ourselves out of existence any time soon.

Survival of the fittest, best adapted.
I see those kids that are immunized and don't get sick and die, as fitter than those who aren't and die off.
I see those parents that decide to immunize their kids as better adapted to technology and science than those that don't.
Don't you?

the religious anti-vaxxers in the Netherlands are called 'Black Stockings' in reference to their way of dressing (a bit Amish, for you Americans). they've been anti-vax before it was 'cool', as it is considered God's will what happens to you and no intrusive action by a doctor is allowed, this includes injections. they won't allow operations either, so appendicitis kills off a fair few of them.

they were one of the main reasons polio vaccine was developed that could be given orally (on a cube of sugar), as that was allowed by most of them, and we were able to eradicate polio in the Netherlands.

anyway, they're still dumbasses in my book.

Car seats may cause cerebral palsy

Okay, no they don't. But it's the same logic as the antivaccine contingent uses against vaccines, and it's a brilliant article!

SciFi, on the subject of GMO's: my elder son has a colleague and good friend who is an internationally known geneticist, and he has a somewhat negative view of GMO's, but not out of concern for food safety. He says that the potential problem when we genetically modify say, wheat, to produce larger grains or grow faster, is that we simply don't know what else we might be modifying as we'll. Genes interact in ways that we simply don't yet understand, and he worries about a time when some ancient but long dormant grain disease might lay waste to the world's wheat harvest because the genes that had evolved to protect the wheat from that disease were unknowingly altered in pursuit of some other advantage. At the very least, one hopes that original copies of the altered plants are being kept for just such an eventuality.

gethen wrote:SciFi, on the subject of GMO's: my elder son has a colleague and good friend who is an internationally known geneticist, and he has a somewhat negative view of GMO's, but not out of concern for food safety. He says that the potential problem when we genetically modify say, wheat, to produce larger grains or grow faster, is that we simply don't know what else we might be modifying as we'll. Genes interact in ways that we simply don't yet understand, and he worries about a time when some ancient but long dormant grain disease might lay waste to the world's wheat harvest because the genes that had evolved to protect the wheat from that disease were unknowingly altered in pursuit of some other advantage. At the very least, one hopes that original copies of the altered plants are being kept for just such an eventuality.

That's one of my issues with GMOs. Another big issue I have is patenting the changed food, making it to where you can't gather seeds from the crops, and forcing farmers to buy new seeds from you every year. Monsanto has done this a lot in India, and it's downright criminal.

I'm also concerned that there may be long term effects of which we can't know about in advance.

But my biggest issue with food is how they put corn (and high fructose corn syrup) into everything just to prop up the corn farmers, who are only growing corn because the government subsidizes it, and then being told that it's harmless. Of that, I'm very skeptical.

I'm definitely not against GMOs across the board.

And now we have ignorant, idiot parents refusing Vitamin K shots for their newborns.

gethen wrote:SciFi, on the subject of GMO's: my elder son has a colleague and good friend who is an internationally known geneticist, and he has a somewhat negative view of GMO's, but not out of concern for food safety. He says that the potential problem when we genetically modify say, wheat, to produce larger grains or grow faster, is that we simply don't know what else we might be modifying as we'll. Genes interact in ways that we simply don't yet understand, and he worries about a time when some ancient but long dormant grain disease might lay waste to the world's wheat harvest because the genes that had evolved to protect the wheat from that disease were unknowingly altered in pursuit of some other advantage. At the very least, one hopes that original copies of the altered plants are being kept for just such an eventuality.

Well, if that is being done, this would be the place to keep them.

SciFi Chick wrote:And now we have ignorant, idiot parents refusing Vitamin K shots for their newborns.

Figures

SciFi Chick wrote:And now we have ignorant, idiot parents refusing Vitamin K shots for their newborns.

We really need to start putting chlorine in the gene pool.

This.

Hy Brazil is sinking

Yosh wrote:This.

Hy Brazil is sinking

No, it's not.