FWIS3

I didn't actually expect any response when the 2005 Trump video came out - you know, the one where he brags about sexually assaulting women. But, it looks like the Republicans are backing away.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/pow ... ge%2Fstory

We'll see if it's for real this time. I frankly doubt it.

But, seriously: did anyone doubt before that he got up to this shit? Did anyone doubt for a minute that he was as scumbag? His entire appeal to the alt-right was being racist, sexist, arrogant, and generally a complete asshole. Vichy Republicans like Ryan and McConnell knew he was evil, and backed him anyway, because they saw the popularity of his assholeness as a way to maintain power. They're only jumping ship now - if they actually are, and I have trouble believing it - because they think it might not work to have a candidate who literally brags about committing rape. This is in no way an ethical decision. We know that because every other time he's shown himself to be scum, they've hemmed and hawed and gone right along with it.

Can we please stop acting all shocked about this?

Oh, also,

“I am sickened by what I heard today,” Ryan said. “Women are to be championed and revered, not objectified. I hope Mr. Trump treats this situation with the seriousness it deserves and works to demonstrate to the country that he has greater respect for women than this clip suggests.”

There we go, more weaseling... I figured. I like how he leaves room for an apology setting things right, even though that's like asking a murderer to bring back their victim from the dead.

And incidentally, Mr. Ryan,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political ... n#Abortion

You're on record as opposing abortion even in cases of rape, being okay with criminal prosecution of women who have abortions, wanting full citizens' rights for zygotes, and opposing funding for emergency contraception. That last especially is just a giant "fuck you" to women everywhere in the US. So I have some trouble taking this talk of "respect for women" seriously.

Likewise Mitch McConnell. "Full responsibility" my ass. Drop the bastard already!

The next line in Speaker Ryan's statement is telling about this debacle of an election: Trump was disinvited to an event in Wisconsin. Four weeks before the election, the Republican Speaker of the House disinvites the Republican presidential nominee from an event. Wow. It doesn't get anymore fucked up than that.

Frankly for me what I don't get is why this is what upsets so many people after months of Trump saying ridiculous things. What's that line of believe a person the first time they show you their true self?

Like, a lot of media are spinning this as what will lose him the election, but last I checked he's already really behind. I obviously don't agree with what was said, but refuse to believe many people are seriously changing their minds. (Like, Paul Ryan is still voting for Trump.)

Rommie wrote:Like, a lot of media are spinning this as what will lose him the election, but last I checked he's already really behind. I obviously don't agree with what was said, but refuse to believe many people are seriously changing their minds. (Like, Paul Ryan is still voting for Trump.)

I saw a comment somewhere that this is entirely about votes. Black people almost never vote Republican, so racism towards them doesn't damage the Republican brand; likewise to a somewhat lesser extent with Latino/a people. But there are lots of white women who normally vote Republican, so being too enthusiastic about their grinning rapist candidate might hurt them at the voting booth.

But, of course Ryan and his ilk are going to leave themselves weasel room. They're greedy bastards, or maybe the idea of a conservative Supreme Court is just too shiny to let go of.

Whatever. I have no sympathy for them. If this election were a toss-up between Mitt Romney and Nicolas Maduro, I'd hold my nose and vote for Romney; I expect the same of conservatives.

Well said GJ. I too don't know why anyone is shocked by this; I guess the only good thing about Trump is he is consistent over a long period of time: consistently a horror of a person who shows no respect for any other person and only looks at others as something to screw, either sexually or out of their money.

Apparently, the talking heads expect that at least 80% of the people who support Trump will continue to support him. I fear it may be even more than that.

@Fisher

What I've generally noticed with Trump supporters is that, rather than being malicious, they're incredibly uninformed. All those I've encountered so far have tunnel vision with respect to news sources, and aren't inclined to use search engines.

It's not even banality of evil, more like apathy of evil. Profoundly fucking depressing.

Gullible Jones wrote:@Fisher

What I've generally noticed with Trump supporters is that, rather than being malicious, they're incredibly uninformed. All those I've encountered so far have tunnel vision with respect to news sources, and aren't inclined to use search engines.

It's not even banality of evil, more like apathy of evil. Profoundly fucking depressing.

That is why our founders insisted that the electorate be well educated and well informed. Most Democracies fail because corrupt and banal men can win elections. <Moment of Cynicism> The oligarchy has decided we do not need educated and informed citizens. If Trump wins it would not surprise me if they begin to do away with elections altogether. </Moment of Cynicism>

Seriously though, why are people so upset about this? I confess I am completely mystified. Not because I find his words ok- they are unacceptable- but because he's already said so many unacceptable things it's hard to believe that this is what is suddenly upsetting so many people. I genuinely don't get it and hope someone can explain.

The only idea I have is it's one month from the election and anyone paying attention to reality can see this campaign is a sinking ship it's best to jump off, and this is convenient. It makes no real sense to me that John McCain still endorsed him after he was called a coward for being a POW, only to withdrawal that endorsement now, unless it's in this context. But perhaps something else is going on that I'm missing?

to be honest part of me thinks all this is mis-direction. I hate Trump ... not thrilled with Hillary. But I have to wonder what is going on behind the scenes that we should know but do not. It wouldn't be the first time. Mega viruses that go poof and then we discover huge actions somewhere in government... I never used to give into conspiracy but I am really starting to wonder.

Rommie wrote:Seriously though, why are people so upset about this? I confess I am completely mystified. Not because I find his words ok- they are unacceptable- but because he's already said so many unacceptable things it's hard to believe that this is what is suddenly upsetting so many people. I genuinely don't get it and hope someone can explain.

The only idea I have is it's one month from the election and anyone paying attention to reality can see this campaign is a sinking ship it's best to jump off, and this is convenient. It makes no real sense to me that John McCain still endorsed him after he was called a coward for being a POW, only to withdrawal that endorsement now, unless it's in this context. But perhaps something else is going on that I'm missing?

What would you say was worse? He essentially advocated and admitted to sexually assaulting women. Sure, saying he'll deport all the Muslims scares more people and has greater potential for harm. Saying he'll make Mexico build a wall because all their men are rapists is quite a bit stupider. Mocking a disabled person during a campaign speech is very crass. Saying he'll disavow NATO defense treaties shows his extreme ignorance of foreign affairs. Saying he'll kill all the families of terrorists shows he's ignorant of international laws and basic morality. But actually advocating sexual assault? That kicks up a notch in my book. The two things off the top of my head that come close in terms of crossing a line are his asking Russia to hack the DNC and suggesting to his rabid supporters that they assassinate Clinton. Neither of those statements was quite as blatant, though. He can claim that he was misinterpreted. Here, he can't even do that.

geonuc wrote:

Rommie wrote:Seriously though, why are people so upset about this? I confess I am completely mystified. Not because I find his words ok- they are unacceptable- but because he's already said so many unacceptable things it's hard to believe that this is what is suddenly upsetting so many people. I genuinely don't get it and hope someone can explain.

The only idea I have is it's one month from the election and anyone paying attention to reality can see this campaign is a sinking ship it's best to jump off, and this is convenient. It makes no real sense to me that John McCain still endorsed him after he was called a coward for being a POW, only to withdrawal that endorsement now, unless it's in this context. But perhaps something else is going on that I'm missing?

What would you say was worse? He essentially advocated and admitted to sexually assaulting women. Sure, saying he'll deport all the Muslims scares more people and has greater potential for harm. Saying he'll make Mexico build a wall because all their men are rapists is quite a bit stupider. Mocking a disabled person during a campaign speech is very crass. Saying he'll disavow NATO defense treaties shows his extreme ignorance of foreign affairs. Saying he'll kill all the families of terrorists shows he's ignorant of international laws and basic morality. But actually advocating sexual assault? That kicks up a notch in my book. The two things off the top of my head that come close in terms of crossing a line are his asking Russia to hack the DNC and suggesting to his rabid supporters that they assassinate Clinton. Neither of those statements was quite as blatant, though. He can claim that he was misinterpreted. Here, he can't even do that.

Essentially, this is what one speaker I heard say. That in all those other contexts Trump was able to weasel and use misdirection to keep things just ambiguous enough that people could play along. Build a wall and make Mexico pay for it? Come on. He couldn't really mean it. It's just campaign rhetoric. Even a moron knows that you can't compel Mexico to pay for a wall on our side of the border.

Openly talking about sexual assault OTOH. And I think it hits a nerve. Even John McCain, slimy weasel that he can be, realizes that when you are talking about sexually assaulting women that a line has been crossed. Frankly, I think people should have realized Trump crossed a lot of lines a long time ago. I think it is no surprise that I am a staunch moderate centrist conservative almost progressive person in my political views and voting. I have voted for the Republican candidate in more than one election both local and national. And there is no fucking way I am going to vote for Trump. And for the record I made that decision before the latest revelation about what a sleaze bag he is.

I'm with you Rommie. I understand what geonuc and SciFiFisher are saying, but I too don't understand why this is the "death blow" for Trump (and I'm kind of doubting it is).

SciFiFisher wrote:<snip>
Frankly, I think people should have realized Trump crossed a lot of lines a long time ago.

Yep.

He said he could shoot someone and it wouldn't lose him any supporters. I think he is correct.

It might simply be the case of the "straw" that broke the Camel's back, although in the case of the Orange Clown, each "straw" was a real whopper.

Swift wrote:I'm with you Rommie. I understand what geonuc and SciFiFisher are saying, but I too don't understand why this is the "death blow" for Trump (and I'm kind of doubting it is).

I haven't said this is the death blow for Trump; I just think it's the worst thing he's said. The morons voting for Trump will still do so. However, I do believe that this might cause quite a few decent Republicans (and there are many decent Republicans in this country - they're just hard to hear over the noise) to stay away from the polls.

But there's time yet before the election for something else - maybe several somethings - to emerge and overshadow this bit of Trump horror. That's always been my fear with presidential elections - some skeleton, real or fabricated, will come out just before the voting begins which derails my candidate's credibility or electability. It's almost like nothing matters except the last gotcha moment.

geonuc wrote: It's almost like nothing matters except the last gotcha moment.

Mitt Romney and his 49% comment, anyone?

SciFi Chick wrote:

geonuc wrote: It's almost like nothing matters except the last gotcha moment.

Mitt Romney and his 49% comment, anyone?

Don't get me started.

Actually, what I was (sort of) surprised by was the fact that the catering company had an employee who secretly recorded this. And there wasn't any flap about illegal recording, suing the caterer, etc. Apparently, even a "private fund raiser" is not considered private when you are running for president.

The freefall has not just begun now, it's in full force. Yesterday by a friend's count, 11 women came forward with reports about Trump being inappropriate towards them (I say inappropriate because that includes him saying about a 10 year old "I'll be dating her in 10 years" in 1992). I find the article from the former People magazine writer worth reading in particular.

I feel like in the future when people discuss an "October surprise" this will be the textbook definition of one. And I really hope this means we are heading for a landslide to send a message that people like Trump are unacceptable (though I should note, I don't think this will make his supporters switch sides, I just think this means they'll stay home on Election Day).

My ballot is in the mail! Hope it gets here soon!

Edit: Nate Silver's tweets on this are on point.

On CNN this morning they were saying that Trump is threatening to sue the NY Times for their story that he inappropriately touched contestants in one of his pageants. There were also denials about the accusations that he went into the dressing rooms while the women were changing to look at them half-naked.

In the very next bit they played an audio tape of Trump on the Howard Stern show crowing about how one of the perks of being the owner of these pageants was that he got to go in the dressing rooms to do "inspections" and see the women half-naked.

I hope he does sue. Discovery would be amazing!

Seriously though, he can't sue all of them. And something tells me the way this week is going if these are the first women to come forward, it's going to get even worse in the coming days.

Trump is finally learning (this may be a bit too optimistic of a word) that he is not untouchable. And that intimidation eventually stops working when people reach a certain point. His actions and behavior during this campaign have not really changed from his behavior and actions for the last 50(ish) years. He defrauds people. He lies. He bullies. He shouts people down. He uses the legal system as a bludgeon or a stalling tactic. He has all the morals of an alligator. I suppose it should not be a surprise that he is also a sexual predator.

What bothers me is that people think that his methods are admirable. They think he is a successful business man and person. And even worse people are so angry, frustrated, afraid, and fed up with how things are that they are willing to rationalize his behavior as being "ok". And vote for him.

@FIsher

What boggles me, is that it's not like Trump is even that different. Dennis Hastert, Newt Gingrich, Bill Clinton, and many others display that sense of entitlement... Trump just has much more of it.

"Huh, pouring half a gallon of gasoline on the fire makes it bigger and hotter. But maybe if I dump 50 gallons on it, that'll put it out!"

I found this pretty fun- Kellyanne Conway's Day Off

I had this horrible thought that the pubs are pulling their support in a very strategic way. They will go to Hillary's campaign, telling them they will pull their support for Trump (maybe even throw it to Hillary) in exchange for some promises from her. And with that they will sustain a presidency where the CIC can get nothing done and the republicans are really in charge.

But I quickly thought no, Hillary would not make any compromises like that!

pumpkinpi wrote:I had this horrible thought that the pubs are pulling their support in a very strategic way. They will go to Hillary's campaign, telling them they will pull their support for Trump (maybe even throw it to Hillary) in exchange for some promises from her. And with that they will sustain a presidency where the CIC can get nothing done and the republicans are really in charge.

But I quickly thought no, Hillary would not make any compromises like that!

On the other hand, why would that be different than any other campaign promises?