FWIS3

I don't know if this belongs in politics.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/alexandria- ... -reported/
Someone opened fire at a ball field where members of Congress were practicing for a Democrats vs. Republicans exhibition baseball game. Clearly the gunman was targeting the the members of Congress. Several wounded including at least one Congressmen. It doesn't look like the injuries are life threatening.

Even if it shouldn't be in politics, I suspect it'll be hammered into a political issue sooner over later.

Rommie wrote:Even if it shouldn't be in politics, I suspect it'll be hammered into a political issue sooner over later.

Maybe elsewhere, but I can't really imagine FWISers doing that over something like this.

In any case five people were wounded. House Majority Whip Scalise required surgery. The gunman is dead.

I didn't mean you nice people, my cynical thought was reserved for the world outside this board.

So, on the one hand, I wonder if these Republican Congressmen who have been instrumental in not having any gun control laws might rethink them... but then I remember no, because there were two police officers there who shot this guy dead so they'll say it proves gun control works. You know, if you have your own personal bodyguards following you around.

Hey, don't bring politics into this.

An interesting factoid. The gun man apparently asked a republican congressman if it was democrats or republicans practicing. The shooting started a couple of minutes after being told it was republicans. The shooter was a volunteer for the Sanders campaign last year.

I expect the Alt-Right is going to have a field day about the "whack job Lefties".

I shouldn't admit it but I have to admit to a certain sense of irony that it was the conservatives being shot at this time.

Proof that liberals can't shoot fur shit!

vendic wrote:Proof that liberals can't shoot fur shit!

SciFiFisher wrote:
I expect the Alt-Right is going to have a field day about the "whack job Lefties".

To be fair, he was a whack job Lefty. Doesn't mean they all are anymore than all Conservatives are whack jobs.

SciFi Chick wrote:

SciFiFisher wrote:
I expect the Alt-Right is going to have a field day about the "whack job Lefties".

To be fair, he was a whack job Lefty. Doesn't mean they all are anymore than all Conservatives are whack jobs.

I think most reasonable people know that. Like the guy who shot Gabby Giffords a few years ago was a gold bug atheist right winger, but most people know he shot her because of his underlying mental illness.

You know, I hate to say this, but I have more than a little understanding of the feelings of the shooter. The kind of shit that the Republicans in Congress pull, and have been pulling for years, makes me want to cave a bunch of their heads in with a pipe.

For example, this gem from perennial shit-for-brains Steve King:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/15/politics/kfile-steve-king-obama-blame/index.html

Republican Rep. Steve King said Wednesday he partly blames former president Barack Obama for the divided political climate that he argues led to the shooting of House Majority Whip and three others on a baseball field in Alexandria, Virginia.

"I do want to put some of this at the feet of Barack Obama," the Iowa congressman said in an interview with Simon Conway on WHO Iowa radio. "He contributed mightily to dividing us. He focused on our differences rather than our things that unify us. And this is some of the fruits of that labor."

Or the caucus of only Republicans that are crafting the Senate version of the AHAC (TrumpCare), with no Democrats, no public hearings.

Too bad this guy didn't kill the whole friggin' lot of them.

Brite and I were talking this evening about this.
My favorite conspiracy theory is that the hit was ordered by the Democrats so they could win the baseball game.

Seriously, I was observing that these are the people who cheered when Trump suggested that "someone could use their 2A rights to stop Hilary Clinton". They have been whipping up their electorate. Last year they or their surrogates were suggesting that if Hilary won the election that the conservative base would be justified in "armed insurrection" to take back the U.S.

The irony is rather poignant.

I'm done here. Civil discourse is dead.

Swift wrote:You know, I hate to say this, but I have more than a little understanding of the feelings of the shooter. The kind of shit that the Republicans in Congress pull, and have been pulling for years, makes me want to cave a bunch of their heads in with a pipe.

You can get therapy for this.

Swift wrote:For example, this gem from perennial shit-for-brains Steve King:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/15/politics/kfile-steve-king-obama-blame/index.html

Republican Rep. Steve King said Wednesday he partly blames former president Barack Obama for the divided political climate that he argues led to the shooting of House Majority Whip and three others on a baseball field in Alexandria, Virginia.

"I do want to put some of this at the feet of Barack Obama," the Iowa congressman said in an interview with Simon Conway on WHO Iowa radio. "He contributed mightily to dividing us. He focused on our differences rather than our things that unify us. And this is some of the fruits of that labor."

data

Swift wrote:Or the caucus of only Republicans that are crafting the Senate version of the AHAC (TrumpCare), with no Democrats, no public hearings.

Too bad this guy didn't kill the whole friggin' lot of them.

That's mighty liberal of you.
While we're at it, let's kill all the climate skeptics, the MRA's and any group we disagree with. If we don't, the World will be an evil place!!!

When the cause is valued so highly that it's worth killing or jailing people for disagreeing with it, then that cause is lost, as are its members.

We are now living in a World where scientist's are suggesting criminal charges for disagreement. Bill Nyle is open to criminal charges for climate deniers. How we define "denier" is a another issue. He isn't the only one. When any group suggests such things, it has stepped from the realm of science into religion.
I await the next phase, where anyone that doesn't agree with the consensus is charged with conspiring to commit genocide of the entire World. If any crime is worth the death penalty, surely the crime to destroy the World is the most worthy. Let's roll in on the executions, and make the World a great again!

SciFiFisher wrote:

Seriously, I was observing that these are the people who cheered when Trump suggested that "someone could use their 2A rights to stop Hilary Clinton". They have been whipping up their electorate. Last year they or their surrogates were suggesting that if Hilary won the election that the conservative base would be justified in "armed insurrection" to take back the U.S.

The irony is rather poignant.

Who needs ISIS or Russia to destroy the US. The USA is pulling itself apart because few are interested in listening to the other. How can anyone listen to the other party when they are pure evil?
The divide is just ludicrous and it's both sides of politics doing it.
Back in Bill Clinton's era, he stated that we need better immigration controls, that illegal immigrants were taking American jobs, that we need better border security. Everyone applauded. Republicans and Democrats alike.
Fast forward to recent times. Trump and anyone that has the same views as was then so universally popular by Clinton, both parties and the public, is now a racist and is evil position to take.
It's gotten so bad that a lunatic starts shooting Republicans because they are evil and we get sympathizers who understand his position and wish he did the whole lot in.
wtf America?
Is this what you have become?
W.T.F.

vendic wrote:

SciFiFisher wrote:

Seriously, I was observing that these are the people who cheered when Trump suggested that "someone could use their 2A rights to stop Hilary Clinton". They have been whipping up their electorate. Last year they or their surrogates were suggesting that if Hilary won the election that the conservative base would be justified in "armed insurrection" to take back the U.S.

The irony is rather poignant.

Who needs ISIS or Russia to destroy the US. The USA is pulling itself apart because few are interested in listening to the other. How can anyone listen to the other party when they are pure evil?
The divide is just ludicrous and it's both sides of politics doing it.
Back in Bill Clinton's era, he stated that we need better immigration controls, that illegal immigrants were taking American jobs, that we need better border security. Everyone applauded. Republicans and Democrats alike.
Fast forward to recent times. Trump and anyone that has the same views as was then so universally popular by Clinton, both parties and the public, is now a racist and is evil position to take.
It's gotten so bad that a lunatic starts shooting Republicans because they are evil and we get sympathizers who understand his position and wish he did the whole lot in.
wtf America?
Is this what you have become?
W.T.F.

vendic wrote:

SciFiFisher wrote:

Seriously, I was observing that these are the people who cheered when Trump suggested that "someone could use their 2A rights to stop Hilary Clinton". They have been whipping up their electorate. Last year they or their surrogates were suggesting that if Hilary won the election that the conservative base would be justified in "armed insurrection" to take back the U.S.

The irony is rather poignant.

Who needs ISIS or Russia to destroy the US. The USA is pulling itself apart because few are interested in listening to the other. How can anyone listen to the other party when they are pure evil?
The divide is just ludicrous and it's both sides of politics doing it.
Back in Bill Clinton's era, he stated that we need better immigration controls, that illegal immigrants were taking American jobs, that we need better border security. Everyone applauded. Republicans and Democrats alike.
Fast forward to recent times. Trump and anyone that has the same views as was then so universally popular by Clinton, both parties and the public, is now a racist and is evil position to take.
It's gotten so bad that a lunatic starts shooting Republicans because they are evil and we get sympathizers who understand his position and wish he did the whole lot in.
wtf America?
Is this what you have become?
W.T.F.

I have listened to "the other side". All I have heard from Trump supporters is a wave of hatred, anger, and a deep seated desire to see "it all burned down" because they aren't getting what they want. Meanwhile Trump and Co. are looting the treasury and (Allegedly) laundering money for the Russians. They took some popular issues that conservatives were deeply committed to and convinced them that they would really work on all of those issues and fix them. They won't and they never wanted to.

Along the way conservatives endorsed physical violence and advocated "armed resurrection" if Hilary Clinton won the election. For the last 8+ years the so called conservative party has been nothing but obstructionist. They literally stole a supreme court nomination and held it hostage until someone "conservative enough" could be picked for the job. I could go on. But, I have made my point. The irony of conservatives who endorsed VIOLENCE and CORRUPTION having violence used against them is more than I choose to ignore. They chose to use hate, fear, anger, and chaos to win power. And then chose to use that power to enrich the top 10% of this country while ensuring that the lower 10-20% lives would become even worse.

If you expected me to pretend to be outraged over the fact that creating chaos causes there to be real consequences then I am sorry to disappoint you. If you expected me to have one iota of sympathy for men who had just recently voted to potentially condemn 20 million Americans to die because they wouldn't have health care I am sorry to disappoint you. I am willing to engage in civil discourse with people who are civil. I am more than willing to have an honest debate about the value of human life. But, I refuse to value House Majority Whip Scalise or his fellow Republicans any higher than they valued the lives of their fellow Americans when they voted to deny access to healthcare for them. Or voted to destroy protections for the average borrower in this country. Or insisted on gutting the ACA so that it would fail. Asking me to value their lives higher than they value anyone else's lives other than their own is noble and very enlightened. Unfortunately, I feel neither noble or enlightened when it comes to the people representing the GOP and the conservative party these days.

I might also observe that understanding why the gunman did what he did and realizing that the irony was extreme in this case doesn't mean that I think he did the right thing. If he had lived and been put on trial I would have advocated for the most severe punishment allowed by law. If someone other than the gunman had died I would have advocated for the death penalty. I don't believe that violence will automatically result in a better world. If it did the Middle East would be a garden of paradise by now. But, I do believe that sometimes it takes violence to create the catalysts for change. The Republicans have been pushing and pushing and pushing. Why they are surprised that they finally are getting this response is in line with the rest of the ignorance that people seem to engage in on a regular basis to rationalize their decisions and their behavior.

Fisher, I was agreeing with you, not directing my post at you because you made the observation that there is also a pretty crazy side to the Republicans that called for violence. IOW, they've all gone nuts, which is where I was going. I certainly meant no venom at you for making an observation or a joke, after all, I did the same thing in my previous post noting the lack of accuracy on behalf of the rifleman.

The last paragraph in your response is where I figured you'd stand. As for the rest of the post, to be perfectly honest, I pretty much agree with you there for the most part too. Not all of it, but by the same token, I could add to your rant too, but I'm now afraid.

vendic wrote:Fisher, I was agreeing with you, not directing my post at you because you made the observation that there is also a pretty crazy side to the Republicans that called for violence. IOW, they've all gone nuts, which is where I was going. I certainly meant no venom at you for making an observation or a joke, after all, I did the same thing in my previous post noting the lack of accuracy on behalf of the rifleman.

The last paragraph in your response is where I figured you'd stand. As for the rest of the post, to be perfectly honest, I pretty much agree with you there for the most part too. Not all of it, but by the same token, I could add to your rant too, but I'm now afraid.

Well, since you put it that way.

vendic wrote:

SciFiFisher wrote:

Seriously, I was observing that these are the people who cheered when Trump suggested that "someone could use their 2A rights to stop Hilary Clinton". They have been whipping up their electorate. Last year they or their surrogates were suggesting that if Hilary won the election that the conservative base would be justified in "armed insurrection" to take back the U.S.

The irony is rather poignant.

Who needs ISIS or Russia to destroy the US. The USA is pulling itself apart because few are interested in listening to the other. How can anyone listen to the other party when they are pure evil?
The divide is just ludicrous and it's both sides of politics doing it.
Back in Bill Clinton's era, he stated that we need better immigration controls, that illegal immigrants were taking American jobs, that we need better border security. Everyone applauded. Republicans and Democrats alike.
Fast forward to recent times. Trump and anyone that has the same views as was then so universally popular by Clinton, both parties and the public, is now a racist and is evil position to take.
It's gotten so bad that a lunatic starts shooting Republicans because they are evil and we get sympathizers who understand his position and wish he did the whole lot in.
wtf America?
Is this what you have become?
W.T.F.

Yeah, WTF.
I tired of Fox News and that garbage and their Republican hoards bashing the Obamas and anyone who disagrees with them for years and years. And I'm just supposed to keep taking it. Fuck that. I love this crap about "why don't you give Trump a chance" or "show a little respect, he is President" when they showed nothing but disrespect (to say the least) to the Obamas. Now we're all supposed to play nice. Fuck that.

And you what to defend that?

Am I going to go out kill anyone; of course not. I've never touched a gun in my life. But the Republicans have been spreading HATRED for a decade and I don't feel much sympathy if it comes back to bite them in the ass.

SciFiFisher wrote:

vendic wrote:

SciFiFisher wrote:

Seriously, I was observing that these are the people who cheered when Trump suggested that "someone could use their 2A rights to stop Hilary Clinton". They have been whipping up their electorate. Last year they or their surrogates were suggesting that if Hilary won the election that the conservative base would be justified in "armed insurrection" to take back the U.S.

The irony is rather poignant.

Who needs ISIS or Russia to destroy the US. The USA is pulling itself apart because few are interested in listening to the other. How can anyone listen to the other party when they are pure evil?
The divide is just ludicrous and it's both sides of politics doing it.
Back in Bill Clinton's era, he stated that we need better immigration controls, that illegal immigrants were taking American jobs, that we need better border security. Everyone applauded. Republicans and Democrats alike.
Fast forward to recent times. Trump and anyone that has the same views as was then so universally popular by Clinton, both parties and the public, is now a racist and is evil position to take.
It's gotten so bad that a lunatic starts shooting Republicans because they are evil and we get sympathizers who understand his position and wish he did the whole lot in.
wtf America?
Is this what you have become?
W.T.F.

I have listened to "the other side". All I have heard from Trump supporters is a wave of hatred, anger, and a deep seated desire to see "it all burned down" because they aren't getting what they want. Meanwhile Trump and Co. are looting the treasury and (Allegedly) laundering money for the Russians. They took some popular issues that conservatives were deeply committed to and convinced them that they would really work on all of those issues and fix them. They won't and they never wanted to.

Along the way conservatives endorsed physical violence and advocated "armed resurrection" if Hilary Clinton won the election. For the last 8+ years the so called conservative party has been nothing but obstructionist. They literally stole a supreme court nomination and held it hostage until someone "conservative enough" could be picked for the job. I could go on. But, I have made my point. The irony of conservatives who endorsed VIOLENCE and CORRUPTION having violence used against them is more than I choose to ignore. They chose to use hate, fear, anger, and chaos to win power. And then chose to use that power to enrich the top 10% of this country while ensuring that the lower 10-20% lives would become even worse.

If you expected me to pretend to be outraged over the fact that creating chaos causes there to be real consequences then I am sorry to disappoint you. If you expected me to have one iota of sympathy for men who had just recently voted to potentially condemn 20 million Americans to die because they wouldn't have health care I am sorry to disappoint you. I am willing to engage in civil discourse with people who are civil. I am more than willing to have an honest debate about the value of human life. But, I refuse to value House Majority Whip Scalise or his fellow Republicans any higher than they valued the lives of their fellow Americans when they voted to deny access to healthcare for them. Or voted to destroy protections for the average borrower in this country. Or insisted on gutting the ACA so that it would fail. Asking me to value their lives higher than they value anyone else's lives other than their own is noble and very enlightened. Unfortunately, I feel neither noble or enlightened when it comes to the people representing the GOP and the conservative party these days.

I might also observe that understanding why the gunman did what he did and realizing that the irony was extreme in this case doesn't mean that I think he did the right thing. If he had lived and been put on trial I would have advocated for the most severe punishment allowed by law. If someone other than the gunman had died I would have advocated for the death penalty. I don't believe that violence will automatically result in a better world. If it did the Middle East would be a garden of paradise by now. But, I do believe that sometimes it takes violence to create the catalysts for change. The Republicans have been pushing and pushing and pushing. Why they are surprised that they finally are getting this response is in line with the rest of the ignorance that people seem to engage in on a regular basis to rationalize their decisions and their behavior.

SciFi Chick wrote:I'm done here. Civil discourse is dead.

You might as well stay, because I done. Bye

Swift wrote:

SciFi Chick wrote:I'm done here. Civil discourse is dead.

You might as well stay, because I done. Bye

Of course you are, because God forbid someone say something that might change your mind. God forbid you use logic to defend your position. Oh, no. You are so put upon that if someone disagrees, you have to leave the conversation. Way to stand up for your convictions.

As for me leaving, it was because I couldn't figure out a way to articulate why I thought your response was wrong. I stayed to read and I'm glad I did, because vendic and SciFi Fisher were very articulate. I'm still learning in that department. I write this hoping you'll actually read while knowing you won't, and I'll be perfectly honest - that pisses me off about you. Your way or the highway, and you can't be bothered to discuss a subject. Sorry old age is making you too lazy to support your positions. We should all just intuitively know you're right. Well, I don't. And I think it would be useful to discuss your point of view in case mine is wrong, but I guess that's just too much effort for you. You can't be bothered schooling the ignorant, so I guess I'll just remain that - ignorant. Thank you so much.

Swift wrote:Yeah, WTF.
I tired of Fox News and that garbage and their Republican hoards bashing the Obamas and anyone who disagrees with them for years and years. And I'm just supposed to keep taking it. Fuck that. I love this crap about "why don't you give Trump a chance" or "show a little respect, he is President" when they showed nothing but disrespect (to say the least) to the Obamas. Now we're all supposed to play nice. Fuck that.

And you what to defend that?

Am I going to go out kill anyone; of course not. I've never touched a gun in my life. But the Republicans have been spreading HATRED for a decade and I don't feel much sympathy if it comes back to bite them in the ass.

I'm not defending Trump or the Republican party as my response to fisher should explain.
I was appalled at the treatment the Republicans gave President Obama.
Do I think that the solution is to become just like them?
No.
Do I wish a shooter killed the lot of them?
No.

My issue is that it seems like we're going into a two extremist party position and that is fucked up.

Here's the crux of the problem however; you have grouped all Republicans as though they are all guilty and all deserve to be killed.
What difference is there to someone saying all Jews need to die because they don't like some Jews?
Why not condone killing all blacks because of the BLM movement?

I draw the line at hate. I always have. What you are sprouting is hate. You feel you are justified in doing so. Well, so did the KKK, so did Hitler, so did Stalin etc. They all justified hate based on what "they" thought was right and then proceeded to universally condemn and slaughter entire groups of people. The first step always is convincing people that they are guilty by proxy. Once that is complete, then they can pretty much do what they want.
That is just plain evil and I will ALWAYS point it out and fight against it.

I have no idea what is going on in your life, but you never struck me as such a person before your post on this thread. Maybe you are having a tough life right now and are having issues so that is coming through. I have to speculate as to me this is rather unusual.
I know I am living the dream, and have absolutely nothing I desire left in life, I have it all. Apart from I broke my toe the other day on the engine well and that's making me cranky. Particularly after I had to straighten it myself. If I could share some of my good fortune with you to make you not so stressed and angry, I would happily do so.