FWIS3

I know a lot of you folks still won't believe me about this, but:

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5a2e ... 3b344492f2

Someone found a style guide for the Daily Stormer. It talks a lot about sounding just ironic enough to make people comfortable with their actual Nazism. Like it or not, fake irony is a great way to hide propaganda.

Irony, Sarcasm, Humor, and other tactics are all used to make unacceptable things acceptable.

This was an interesting post recently on Reddit outlining how these guys will creep into local communities pretending they live there, and then steer the conversation towards right wing talking points in an attempt to normalize them. Worth checking out if you're interested in this topic.

So what? Not everyone - in fact, most people can't be brainwashed just by reading a vile idea. I didn't need anyone to explain to me that Hitler was bad or that genocide was an evil idea. Having a Nazi be ironic with me certainly isn't going to change my mind.

I believe the idea is that by plastering "local" forums (in the case I linked for example), it makes you think that certain viewpoints are more normal than they really are in your local area or what have you. And like it or not, people certainly are influenced by ideas the more they are exposed to them and think how common they are, regardless of which way those views lean, right left or center.

[quote="Rommie] And like it or not, people certainly are influenced by ideas the more they are exposed to them and think how common they are, regardless of which way those views lean, right left or center.[/quote]

Really? I'd legit like to see proof of that. I've tried to change minds on all sorts of subjects both here and on Facebbok to no avail.

You're exposed to conservative ideas every time you visit your parents and it hasn't changed your mind at all.

I'd really like to see a study or two proving this.

And freedom of expression dictates that we will be exposed to ideas we don't like.

One on civility- http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 12009/full

One in five people change their political views based on social media- https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.vox.com ... y-research

In my case I should point out anecdote is not the plural of data.

I never said we should never see ideas we don’t like. But I think the rigging of the election by the Russians which included massive online propaganda efforts should make anyone want to be aware of what is going on.

Rommie wrote:One on civility- http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 12009/full

One in five people change their political views based on social media- https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.vox.com ... y-research

In my case I should point out anecdote is not the plural of data.

I never said we should never see ideas we don’t like. But I think the rigging of the election by the Russians which included massive online propaganda efforts should make anyone want to be aware of what is going on.

Still no actual evidence that Russia "rigged" the election.

As to people changing their views, it's not an automatic that they did so through brainwashing. Some of us sift through ideas and pick the ones that seem rational, logical, and likely to encourage a healthy society. If we come upon a better idea, we discard the first one.

This whole Nazi scare is over the top. I don't think they're successfully converting loads of white people. The bigger problem is that reasonable conservatives that we disagree with are getting labeled Nazis which just feeds into this fear mongering. When they deny being Nazis, people like GJ come along and call them liars.

SciFi Chick wrote:Still no actual evidence that Russia "rigged" the election.

Rigged is not the proper term but I believe our national intelligence agencies would beg to differ concerning whether Russia exerted improper and probably illegal (for the Americans involved) influence on the election. And no, they're not going to share the evidence with you or me.

Ironically, much of the above to me is proof that proliferation of a particular narrative will soften peoples opinion towards it.

squ1d wrote:Ironically, much of the above to me is proof that proliferation of a particular narrative will soften peoples opinion towards it.

Same here.

geonuc wrote:

SciFi Chick wrote:Still no actual evidence that Russia "rigged" the election.

Rigged is not the proper term but I believe our national intelligence agencies would beg to differ concerning whether Russia exerted improper and probably illegal (for the Americans involved) influence on the election. And no, they're not going to share the evidence with you or me.

Gosh. I wonder why they haven't shared it with Mueller or Congress...

SciFi Chick wrote:

geonuc wrote:

SciFi Chick wrote:Still no actual evidence that Russia "rigged" the election.

Rigged is not the proper term but I believe our national intelligence agencies would beg to differ concerning whether Russia exerted improper and probably illegal (for the Americans involved) influence on the election. And no, they're not going to share the evidence with you or me.

Gosh. I wonder why they haven't shared it with Mueller or Congress...

They have.

SciFiFisher wrote:

SciFi Chick wrote:

geonuc wrote:

SciFi Chick wrote:Still no actual evidence that Russia "rigged" the election.

Rigged is not the proper term but I believe our national intelligence agencies would beg to differ concerning whether Russia exerted improper and probably illegal (for the Americans involved) influence on the election. And no, they're not going to share the evidence with you or me.

Gosh. I wonder why they haven't shared it with Mueller or Congress...

They have.

So what's taking so long? And why have they refocused the investigation to obstruction of justice rather than honing in on the "obvious" collusion?

SciFi Chick wrote:

SciFiFisher wrote:

SciFi Chick wrote:

geonuc wrote:

SciFi Chick wrote:Still no actual evidence that Russia "rigged" the election.

Rigged is not the proper term but I believe our national intelligence agencies would beg to differ concerning whether Russia exerted improper and probably illegal (for the Americans involved) influence on the election. And no, they're not going to share the evidence with you or me.

Gosh. I wonder why they haven't shared it with Mueller or Congress...

They have.

So what's taking so long? And why have they refocused the investigation to obstruction of justice rather than honing in on the "obvious" collusion?

Maybe because Mueller is doing what special prosecutors should do: not blab about his investigation and hold the evidence until it can be presented to a court of law. We don't know why it's taking so long and won't until indictments are issued, if then. As for Congress, seriously? You need to ask?

SciFi Chick wrote:

SciFiFisher wrote:

SciFi Chick wrote:

geonuc wrote:

SciFi Chick wrote:Still no actual evidence that Russia "rigged" the election.

Rigged is not the proper term but I believe our national intelligence agencies would beg to differ concerning whether Russia exerted improper and probably illegal (for the Americans involved) influence on the election. And no, they're not going to share the evidence with you or me.

Gosh. I wonder why they haven't shared it with Mueller or Congress...

They have.

So what's taking so long? And why have they refocused the investigation to obstruction of justice rather than honing in on the "obvious" collusion?

Because special prosecutors focus on crimes that they can prove. And to be honest because while we talk a lot about collusion as if that act alone is the crime it is not. Collusion is the action that leads to crimes. Collusion is usually a secret agreement or conspiracy to gain an unfair advantage or to commit an illegal act such as treason. As such, there is no actual federal crime of "collusion". In the current context collusion and conspiracy are almost interchangeable. Except conspiracy is a crime. And if they find enough evidence Mueller's team may bring conspiracy charges.

Treason is also one of those slippery legal concepts with fairly narrowly defined criteria. So, while I believe that many in the Trump camp, including Donald Trump, committed treason I don't expect anyone will ever be charged with treason. The best I can hope for is other criminal charges such as obstruction of justice, witness tampering, ethics violations, and etc.