FWIS3

Posted: **Thu Jan 09, 2014 6:58 am**

Yes, literally:

http://boingboing.net/2014/01/04/canadi ... ies-t.html

I guess I shouldn't be surprised, knowing Harper. But this is pretty sickening.

Posted: **Thu Jan 09, 2014 10:29 am**

The CBC article doesn't mention anything about actual burnings, just stuff being dumped and gone through by the public. They are equally critical of the move to close the libraries, however, citing anti-climate change science motivations.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/fisheri ... -1.2486171

Posted: **Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:16 pm**

I don't know if Canada has "impeachment" provisions or not but this seems like an impeachable offensel to me. Or perhaps at least a Parliamentary vote of no confidence might do the same thing. I am not familiar with Canada's constitution as you might gather from my previous comments here.

At any ratel, what a shame and a disgrace on the Tories. I guess they are in tune with the Religious Wrong in the USA with their anti-science beliefs.

Posted: **Thu Jan 09, 2014 3:40 pm**

Who said the inquisition was over?

Posted: **Thu Jan 09, 2014 7:46 pm**

OldCM wrote:I don't know if Canada has "impeachment" provisions or not but this seems like an impeachable offensel to me. Or perhaps at least a Parliamentary vote of no confidence might do the same thing. I am not familiar with Canada's constitution as you might gather from my previous comments here.

No, we're a Westminster Parliamentary system. We have no impeachment provisions. Instead we have what is known as "Responsible Government" which requires that the sitting government enjoy the confidence of the Commons. If they lose a confidence vote, they get turfed and we go to election (or the Governor General steps in and appoints a new government from the sitting House, but that gets complicated). Unfortunately, for various reasons I won't go into here, since at least the Trudeau government the system has eroded due to the increasing power of party, caucus, and PM. There are reforms on the books that are going to a vote later this year, but that doesn't help us here.

As to book burnings, no. There were no literal burnings. They just sent the books to a landfill. No better, in my opinion.

Honestly, this is just another manifestation of behaviour that the Tories are well known for. They want to sell oil, so they deny the existence of global warming (well, there are platitudes said, but no more than that) and kneecap any science that is critical of their stance. It's a cynical pragmatism that has defined the Harper government since it was elected. Principle has no place. If it helps you and you can get away with it, it's a good idea.

It's disgusting. It's indicative of a particular conservative mindset that you'll find in Canada, similar to the Tea Party, but... I don't know. It's hard to describe. It has a different flavour to it. More of a "This regressive thing is common sense, and anyone who disagrees is a naïve idiot, and probably a foreigner. Fancy-pants liberal ivory tower elitists..."

Said angrily. And daring you to disagree. It's a... bullying attempt to convince you that their pseudo-populist ideas are actual, indisputable reality? An attempt to create and maintain privilege for their in-group? A genuinely held belief that their regressive ideas are superior to whatever those damned liberals say?

I don't know. It's hard to get a handle on it. It got Rob Ford elected, though.

Posted: **Thu Jan 09, 2014 8:01 pm**

Let me try: In bred sister humping rednecks.

Posted: **Fri Jan 10, 2014 2:09 am**

The Supreme Canuck wrote: No, we're a Westminster Parliamentary system. We have no impeachment provisions. Instead we have what is known as "Responsible Government" which requires that the sitting government enjoy the confidence of the Commons. If they lose a confidence vote, they get turfed and we go to election (or the Governor General steps in and appoints a new government from the sitting House, but that gets complicated). Unfortunately, for various reasons I won't go into here, since at least the Trudeau government the system has eroded due to the increasing power of party, caucus, and PM. There are reforms on the books that are going to a vote later this year, but that doesn't help us here.

As to book burnings, no. There were no literal burnings. They just sent the books to a landfill. No better, in my opinion.

Honestly, this is just another manifestation of behaviour that the Tories are well known for. They want to sell oil, so they deny the existence of global warming (well, there are platitudes said, but no more than that) and kneecap any science that is critical of their stance. It's a cynical pragmatism that has defined the Harper government since it was elected. Principle has no place. If it helps you and you can get away with it, it's a good idea.

It's disgusting. It's indicative of a particular conservative mindset that you'll find in Canada, similar to the Tea Party, but... I don't know. It's hard to describe. It has a different flavour to it. More of a "This regressive thing is common sense, and anyone who disagrees is a naïve idiot, and probably a foreigner. Fancy-pants liberal ivory tower elitists..."

Said angrily. And daring you to disagree. It's a... bullying attempt to convince you that their pseudo-populist ideas are actual, indisputable reality? An attempt to create and maintain privilege for their in-group? A genuinely held belief that their regressive ideas are superior to whatever those damned liberals say?

I don't know. It's hard to get a handle on it. It got Rob Ford elected, though.

Thank you for telling me about Canada's system. I agree with you that the problem with Tories is a lot like our Tea Party radicals. And I'm sorry for the loss of valuable information and history to Canada. That really is a shame.

Posted: **Fri Jan 10, 2014 4:34 pm**

The Supreme Canuck wrote:It's disgusting. It's indicative of a particular conservative mindset that you'll find in Canada, similar to the Tea Party, but... I don't know. It's hard to describe. It has a different flavour to it. More of a "This regressive thing is common sense, and anyone who disagrees is a naïve idiot, and probably a foreigner. Fancy-pants liberal ivory tower elitists..."

Said angrily. And daring you to disagree. It's a... bullying attempt to convince you that their pseudo-populist ideas are actual, indisputable reality? An attempt to create and maintain privilege for their in-group? A genuinely held belief that their regressive ideas are superior to whatever those damned liberals say?

TSC - a question for you: Does Rupert Murdoch own any media outlets (newspapers, TV) in Canada? Not that he invented this, but in the US and the UK , he is probably the current expert on these tactics.

There are two complimentary aspects to his method, demonstrated on a daily basis by Fox News (and other outlets). First is the creation and conversion of pseudo-populist ideas into indisputable facts, as you say. But the other half of it is equally as bad, and it is their defense when confronted with the observations that a lot of their so-called-facts are wrong.

They try to put forth the proposition that all news outlets lie, and all so-called "news" is actually just opinions and is biased. That's even in their slogan "fair and balanced". All the other media outlets are not giving news and facts, they are just presenting things with their bias, and they are just balancing things out. There is no actual reality, it is all just differing opinions, and so their opinion is as good as anyone else's.

This dismisal of an objective reality, and of objective presentations of it, lets you dismiss anything that disagrees with your beliefs. It is the ultimate equality, and makes crap equivalent to gold. It is a very powerful tool. It allows you dismiss things with solid evidence, like climate change, with a simple "well, that's your opinion". It allow Gretchen Carlson's opinon on climate change to be equal to that of professional climatologist.

:scream:

Posted: **Fri Jan 10, 2014 8:11 pm**

Swift wrote:TSC - a question for you: Does Rupert Murdoch own any media outlets (newspapers, TV) in Canada? Not that he invented this, but in the US and the UK , he is probably the current expert on these tactics.

No. But we have our own variety of media demagogues. Conrad Black is Canadian, after all. Mostly you'll find this shit on talk radio, in the National Post, and in anything related to Sun Media (Sun newspapers, SunTV, etc.).

There are two complimentary aspects to his method, demonstrated on a daily basis by Fox News (and other outlets). First is the creation and conversion of pseudo-populist ideas into indisputable facts, as you say. But the other half of it is equally as bad, and it is their defense when confronted with the observations that a lot of their so-called-facts are wrong.

They try to put forth the proposition that all news outlets lie, and all so-called "news" is actually just opinions and is biased. That's even in their slogan "fair and balanced". All the other media outlets are not giving news and facts, they are just presenting things with their bias, and they are just balancing things out. There is no actual reality, it is all just differing opinions, and so their opinion is as good as anyone else's.

This dismisal of an objective reality, and of objective presentations of it, lets you dismiss anything that disagrees with your beliefs. It is the ultimate equality, and makes crap equivalent to gold. It is a very powerful tool. It allows you dismiss things with solid evidence, like climate change, with a simple "well, that's your opinion". It allow Gretchen Carlson's opinon on climate change to be equal to that of professional climatologist.

See, that's not really how it works up here. Sun media has tried that tactic, and success has been... mixed. The papers have managed it, but the TV network got no traction. It's a joke. No one takes it seriously. That sort of media tactic doesn't work in Canada.

But it does work when that attempt to shift what is normal comes from voters... and the government itself. I suspect that's part of the reason that I say this nonsense tastes different in Canada: it's less blatant media bullshit, and more behind-the-scenes, "this is how it's always been" government manipulation of services and institutions.

Take the 2% cut in the federal goods and services tax that the Tories brought in just before the recession. Killed government revenues. Then the economy went in the tank. Suddenly, there was no way to balance the books. So of course services needed to be cut. Public service? What do they do? Government scientists? How do they directly contribute to the economy? All gone.

See how it works? Pass a policy off as something popular (tax cuts) but which really allows you to further your conservative ideology (shrink the government). Then call it the new normal, and people will agree. And the centre shifts slightly to the right.

It's insidious.

Posted: **Fri Jan 10, 2014 8:50 pm**

Swift wrote:TSC - a question for you: Does Rupert Murdoch own any media outlets (newspapers, TV) in Canada? Not that he invented this, but in the US and the UK , he is probably the current expert on these tactics.

I really have to thank the USA on behalf of Australians everywhere.
Murdoch was an Australia and wanted to break into the US market.
The US media control laws required that to be a majority owner in a media outlet you had to be a US citizen.
So Murdoch renounced his Australian citizenship and became a US citizen.

While this law is designed to protect the US it effectively is easily bypassed, as demonstrated.
So now the US has taken under its wings the spawn of Satan and he left Australia.

It was a great sacrifice your country did for us.
A sacrifice worthy of remembering for centuries to come. lol

The other popular reason that he changed citizenship is because he bought a 12 foot row boat for fishing and didn't want to get arrested by the USCG every time he went out fishing.
US law, only a born citizen can be President,only citizens can own a media outlet or have a fishing boat. It's part of national security after all. rofl

Hey TSC, ever see the Monty Python sketch, what did the Romans ever do for us?
Seems North America in general has a similar question, "what did scientists ever do for us?"
Gave us metallurgy, chemistry, electronics, sanitation, GPS, TV, radio, car engines, electrical power generation...
Yeah, but apart from all that, what did they ever do for us?
There's the internet, hearing aids, computers, good roads...
Yeah ok, besides all that, what did scientists ever do for us?
There's vaccines, extended the average life span, better medicine...
Yeah, but besides all that, what did scientists ever do for us?
they got us to the moon, explored the visible universe, changed life as we know it completely from what it would have been...
yeah, but...

You can't throw education at idiots and morons and expect to make them Einsteins.
Sad but true.

Posted: **Fri Jan 10, 2014 8:59 pm**

FZR1KG wrote:I really have to thank the USA on behalf of Australians everywhere.
Murdoch was an Australia and wanted to break into the US market.
The US media control laws required that to be a majority owner in a media outlet you had to be a US citizen.
So Murdoch renounced his Australian citizenship and became a US citizen.

While this law is designed to protect the US it effectively is easily bypassed, as demonstrated.
So now the US has taken under its wings the spawn of Satan and he left Australia.

Hm. Funny. There's a similar story about Conrad Black. Back in the 90s, he wanted to be made a British Lord. Under Canadian law, that's illegal - the sort of foreign honour is forbidden to Canadian citizens under the Nickle Resolution (long story). There was some very public bickering between Black and the government. Eventually, the government got its way, but it was pissed with Black. In the end, Black renounced his Canadian citizenship in favour of British citizenship. He was made a peer (Lord Black of Crossharbour), and he was happy. Until he was convicted of fraud in the US and was sent to a prison in Florida. Normally, a Canadian convicted in the US can ask the Canadian government to request that the US government allow them to serve their time in a Canadian prisoner. The US almost always says yes. (The agreement is reciprocal). Canadians like to do this since the Canadian prison system is, well, less abjectly hellish. So Lord Black asked the Canadian government to get the Americans to send him to a Canadian prison.

"Oh, no!" They said. "You renounced your citizenship. Remember that? Yeah, you basically told us to shove it. Got a nice peerage out of it. Now you get to reap what you sow. Rot in Florida."

Whoops.

Of course, now he's back. And he's causing trouble all over again. We can't be shut of him, it seems.

Posted: **Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:21 pm**

How could Conrad be a bad guy?
He's a born again Catholic! lol
God helped him through his prison sentence and everything.

Posted: **Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:51 pm**

FZR1KG wrote:I really have to thank the USA on behalf of Australians everywhere.
...

It was a great sacrifice your country did for us.
A sacrifice worthy of remembering for centuries to come. lol

You are welcome. Please keep it in mind when we have reverted to a Third World dictatorship and we need you to send us food.

Posted: **Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:39 pm**

Actually, now that I think of it, the reason that Fox-style media shenanigans don't work in Canada is because Canadian conservatism differs from American conservatism. There's a communitarianism that exists in traditional Canadian conservatism that just doesn't exist in American conservatism - mostly because you nice folks kicked all those people out of your country after the Revolution.

Of course, with Red Toryism on the decline in recent years (again, a deliberate move by the new Tory party, which is controlled by Blue Tories/Reformers), Canadian conservatism is starting to look an awful lot like American conservatism. Hence the rise of Tea Party-like crap such as the election of Rob Ford, the disdain for science, and the self-righteous pseudo-populism I've been talking about. It's a shame - Red Tories are a much nicer breed. The political landscape is becoming very unpleasant, and not at all what we've been used to for decades.

Posted: **Fri Jan 10, 2014 11:53 pm**

Swift wrote:
FZR1KG wrote:You are welcome. Please keep it in mind when we have reverted to a Third World dictatorship and we need you to send us food.

Never fear.
Monsanto is developing special rugged individual genetically modified grains just for this contingency.
Only $1 per seed, they won't reproduce and a guaranteed to increase no more than 200% per month after the initial order.
You need one acre per seed as they don't like being around other seeds...kills all other plant life to avoid competition resulting in pure 100% ethically clean stock being the only thing the land will support for the next 100,000 years.
Yields over 2.45kg of grain per seed, that's American 245,987 pounds...Monsanto accepts no responsibility for mathematical errors resulting from conversion of Si units to the only real true standard, the American one.
Seed choices are:
White peas.
White corn
White spinach
White pumpkin
White apples
Red white and blue berries.
For the Afro american market a new product is coming out, white watermelon.

Posted: **Fri Jan 10, 2014 11:54 pm**

Ya forgot the White Beans for the Latino Market

Posted: **Sat Jan 11, 2014 6:00 am**

That's the Mexican division, Monsantolada.

FWIS3

The Harper government stages a book burning

The Harper government stages a book burning

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