Are We That Stupid

[SciFiFisher]

I am putting this in BMR because:
1. I wasn't sure where to put it.
2. I wanted everyone to feel free to provide their 2 cents worth.
3. It lets me say exactly what I want to say and RANT if I want.

Here are the facts:

A. IKEA has recalled millions of dressers that pose a tipping risk.
B. Since 1989 at least 36 children have been injured with 6 of them fatally.
C. IKEA ships every one of these products with a warning that they present a tipping risk if children climb them
D. Every unit ships with a bracket for securing the dressers to a wall and instructions on how to do this.
E. The Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) has issued a report labeling the dressers "inherently very dangerous" and stating that the products do not meet U.S. safety standards.


Here are my thoughts on this. Are people really that stupid? As a nurse, a military officer, and a reasonably intelligent person I have developed certain habits over the years. This includes an ability to do risk analysis, assessment, and mitigation. I.E. I determine something is a hazard. I develop a strategy for minimizing or eliminating the hazard. I carry on without mishap.

In this case I buy a dresser from IKEA. It has a warning that says if my small child climbs on it it will tip unless I secure it to a wall. They include a bracket and a screw. The instructions even tell me to secure it to a stud in the wall or use a dry wall anchor or similar aid. My small child grows up to realize that they took unnecessary risks as a child and probably is an ungrateful shit who puts me in a really bad nursing home.


But, no! On at least 36 occasions that we know about people totally ignored the risk, the warning, and just allowed their child or someone else's child to be harmed. In some instances killed. WTF!?

And the solution according to the CPSC is to essentially blame IKEA because they didn't meet the product safety standards in the U.S.

ARE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE REALLY THAT FUCKING STUPID?!!!!! REALLY? HOW DO THEY POSSIBLY REMEMBER TO BREATH LET ALONE BREED?


Ok, I now open this discussion to any and all viewpoints others may wish to provide. Truly, feel free to say it like it is. You won't hurt my feelings. And if you do I will just encourage you to climb an secured piece of furniture.

[Rommie]

But guns, which have killed far more children than those dressers ever would, are perfectly safe and should not be regulated! America has very strange risk assessments.

[SciFiFisher]

But guns, which have killed far more children than those dressers ever would, are perfectly safe and should not be regulated! America has very strange risk assessments.

Don't bother pointing out the inconsistency in the consumer product safety regulations around here missy. It will just make all of us crazy as a loon.

[geonuc]

Many people need to be protected against themselves. I don't say that in jest - it's just a fact. So we have consumer safety laws that cater to the Darwin Award crowd.

Beats having boilers blow up and shit.

[Swift]

Yes, we are that stupid. I don't know why that is even a question, people prove it day in and day out. I've said for a long time that the expression "no one could be that stupid" should be removed from the language because it is constantly being disproved.

[SciFi Chick]

Is it possible that people got the dressers, second hand, without the instructions, as they were already put together? And without the bracket?

How hard is it to eliminate the tipping risk? Especially since they've known about it for almost forty years?

[vendic]

There are only a few ways to prevent tipping.
You can secure it to the wall or floor.
You can extend the front legs so the center of balance is always rear of the front legs. This creates a tripping hazard.
You can make it really heavy so it won't tip. of course a heavier child will still be at risk so there is a limit.

I'm with fisher. Things are dangerous. Learn to use them and stop blaming others for your own incompetence. I do however understand that this may not be intuitive to many people so the usual practice is to aim for the dumbest common denominator (DCD).
This is why metal coat hangers have a warning not to push it into a power outlet with your mouth. It also explains plastic coat hangers.

[Rommie]

Plus perhaps this is showing more common sense than we expect of the average American population, but isn't it common to have to secure big furniture in the house in general when you have a baby? One of my mom's stories about my babyhood involves her coaxing me off a bookshelf I had climbed up on, but I didn't die from a heavy bookcase toppling onto me because my dad is not an idiot and secured it.

Just putting that out there.

[SciFiFisher]

Is it possible that people got the dressers, second hand, without the instructions, as they were already put together? And without the bracket?

How hard is it to eliminate the tipping risk? Especially since they've known about it for almost forty years?

Yes it is possible. The article doesn't say one way or the other so I am intuiting (That's a nicer word than ASS-uming ) that we are only talking about the ones purchased directly from IKEA.

There are a couple of options: Geonuc's options and making the dresser shorter or wider. But, each option has drawbacks. Here is a link to the IKEA recall page with images of the dressers in question.

To put it in some perspective IKEA is not the only manufacturer with this type of issue. In my office I have filing cabinets that are designed to only allow one drawer open at a time to prevent tipping. I think the reason IKEA is catching the flack is because they sell so many and they cater to the average consumer i.e. families with small children.

I think it really comes down to three options:

1. makes things reasonably safe by using risk mitigation strategies such as the one IKEA tried. i.e. warning label, device to eliminate risk, etc. Assume that 85% of the population is intelligent enough to survive childhood without adult supervision. Assume that the other 15% have adult supervision. This option holds people accountable to some degree.

2. Try to protect people from themselves. Ban everything that has ever hurt people. Fire bad!! We eat raw food from now on!!!

3. Try to find a middle of the road option that doesn't rely on the Darwin approach to species selection. Although I wonder sometimes if the species wouldn't be better off if we did allow nature a little more sway in these things.



2. Edited to wonder why the hell I left a dangling second #2 here?

[SciFiFisher]

Plus perhaps this is showing more common sense than we expect of the average American population, but isn't it common to have to secure big furniture in the house in general when you have a baby? One of my mom's stories about my babyhood involves her coaxing me off a bookshelf I had climbed up on, but I didn't die from a heavy bookcase toppling onto me because my dad is not an idiot and secured it.

Just putting that out there.

You dad is awesome! This is a caring intelligent parent.

[vendic]

Although I wonder sometimes if the species wouldn't be better off if we did allow nature a little more sway in these things.

I've seen cases where the parents are bumbling morons and the kid is near genius and vice versa.
So it won't affect the gene pool so much as far as I can tell.

[SciFiFisher]

Although I wonder sometimes if the species wouldn't be better off if we did allow nature a little more sway in these things.

I've seen cases where the parents are bumbling morons and the kid is near genius and vice versa.
So it won't affect the gene pool so much as far as I can tell.

You have to take the long view. Remember we are the descendants of people who could outsmart the Saber tooth.

[code monkey]

I've not seen the item in question.

is it possible that the parents
did not see/know about the warning?
didn't understand how to attach the dresser to the wall?
did not think that their child would try to climb on it?
thought that telling their child not to climb was sufficient?

my heart goes out to them.

[SciFiFisher]

I've not seen the item in question.

is it possible that the parents
did not see/know about the warning?
didn't understand how to attach the dresser to the wall?
did not think that their child would try to climb on it?
thought that telling their child not to climb was sufficient?

my heart goes out to them.

I think your last two options are more likely. I run into a lot of parents who say "My child is very well behaved and wouldn't do that" and "If I tell them not to do something they would never do it". In my current role at the VA I do home visits. Many of them have small children. I make a point of educating them that small children can/will climb and will build staircases out of the most amazing things. So, keeping medications up high isn't sufficiently safe enough. I also frequently observe that children are not fully developed in the logic/rational areas of the brain and are prone to do things that are not "best practices".

No matter how a parent loses a child it is tragic and always seems like a violation of nature.

[code monkey]

...

No matter how a parent loses a child it is tragic and always seems like a violation of nature.

because it is.

[Thumper]

[Morrolan]

We have that three drawer dresser, exactly that one. In our son's room. Has been in there since he was three years old. It has never tipped over despite not being fixed against the wall. It is extremely stable. In order for a child to tip it over (and I checked this) you'll have to:
1. Only load the top drawer
2. Open the bottom drawer
3. Climb on the bottom drawer and stand on it.

This dresser is very hard to topple. On top of that we always load drawers and book cases with heavy items at the bottom and lighter times at the top. It is probably as safe as they come even without attaching it to a wall.

However, the taller ones are inherently less stable, so should always be fixed against the wall.

[SciFiFisher]

We have that three drawer dresser, exactly that one. In our son's room. Has been in there since he was three years old. It has never tipped over despite not being fixed against the wall. It is extremely stable. In order for a child to tip it over (and I checked this) you'll have to:
1. Only load the top drawer
2. Open the bottom drawer
3. Climb on the bottom drawer and stand on it.

This dresser is very hard to topple. On top of that we always load drawers and book cases with heavy items at the bottom and lighter times at the top. It is probably as safe as they come even without attaching it to a wall.

However, the taller ones are inherently less stable, so should always be fixed against the wall.

I think you are being entirely too logical.