FWIS3

things were moving along so nicely. yesterday i met a few friends, made peace between 2 (1 of whom had no idea that the other was irked with her. imagine what i could have accomplished if i had any skill with languages.), and had a celebratory (birthday, post surgical - not my surgery) lunch with them. a lovely time. today i put in a few hours of work, filed my hours, did some housework, made a pair of earrings to go with the byzantine chain bracelet that i made at last week's medieval/renaissance craft class(all before noon!), curled up with my bills and checkbook and there it was - $105.88 to capella health services in tennessee. what?!

i couldn't find anything to support this. called the card's customer service number and finally managed to get out of the telephone tree and to a real person to ask for more information about the charge. it was for 'professional services' and was made online or over the telephone. no, i've not had counseling over the telephone. did i register for classes? no. i have all of the degrees that i want. several more questions and then we decided that this was fradulent and closed the account. amazingly, i will have a replacement card on tuesday.

i am clinging to the thought that someone entered an incorrect number - mine - by mistake. after all, if one were intent on making fraudulent credit card charges, wouldn't one aim higher? there was just this single charge. no sprees at the electronics store.

Well good thing you nipped it at the bud.

And I doubt very much someone entered the wrong number, why? in the back of your card there are three numbers, they are known as CVV2 or CVC2 they are part of a larger code that is generated at the same time as your credit card number (and the only one that is supposed to know the whole code is the bank that owns your credit card). If someone had entered your credit card number by mistake and THEIR CVV2 it would not match and the transaction would have been declined. I doubt very much that someone would have entered it BOTH by mistake.

Sigma_Orionis wrote:Well good thing you nipped it at the bud.

And I doubt very much someone entered the wrong number, why? in the back of your card there are three numbers, they are known as CVV2 or CVC2 they are part of a larger code that is generated at the same time as your credit card number (and the only one that is supposed to know the whole code is the bank. If someone had entered your credit card number by mistake and THEIR CVV2 it would not match and the transaction would have been declined. I doubt very much that someone would have entered it BOTH by mistake.

thanks for taking the air out of that balloon. i was having a hard enough time with the improbability of a typo or 2 yielding a number that would pass hashing. on the other hand, i'm not always asked for those 3 digits. a modest thief?

code monkey wrote:thanks for taking the air out of that balloon. i was having a hard enough time with the improbability of a typo or 2 yielding a number that would pass hashing. on the other hand, i'm not always asked for those 3 digits. a modest thief?

Any time, I'm a well known Fuddy Duddy

I am pretty impressed Mr Mono, you're aware of the "Luhn Mod 10" Algorithm very good

As for the three digits thing, it depends. if you're going to make a transaction IN PERSON, they obviously won't ask for that code because usually the merchant will type it his/herself in the POS (Point of Sale) Card Reader that will validate your credit card.

IF you're making a credit card transaction over the phone, or over the Internet and the merchant is NOT asking for those numbers, I suggest you buy the stuff from someone else. Those people are asking for trouble.

code monkey wrote:

Sigma_Orionis wrote:Well good thing you nipped it at the bud.

And I doubt very much someone entered the wrong number, why? in the back of your card there are three numbers, they are known as CVV2 or CVC2 they are part of a larger code that is generated at the same time as your credit card number (and the only one that is supposed to know the whole code is the bank. If someone had entered your credit card number by mistake and THEIR CVV2 it would not match and the transaction would have been declined. I doubt very much that someone would have entered it BOTH by mistake.

thanks for taking the air out of that balloon. i was having a hard enough time with the improbability of a typo or 2 yielding a number that would pass hashing. on the other hand, i'm not always asked for those 3 digits. a modest thief?

Usually credit card fraudsters will do a few small purchases at first to see if you notice, and THEN ramp things up. My sister for example had issues starting with a few dollar fast food meal purchases.

And thanks for the reminder for me to double-check my US bank account...

Sigma_Orionis wrote:I am pretty impressed Mr Mono, you're aware of the "Luhn Mod 10" Algorithm very good

praise from caesar is praise indeed.

Sigma_Orionis wrote:As for the three digits thing, it depends. if you're going to make a transaction IN PERSON, they obviously won't ask for that code because usually the merchant will type it his/herself in the POS (Point of Sale) Card Reader that will validate your credit card.

I never needed those three numbers when running cards on my POS reader at the restaurant. Also, here in the U.S., a lot of places don't even require your signature or any I.D. Kind of scary when you think about it.

SciFi Chick wrote:

Sigma_Orionis wrote:As for the three digits thing, it depends. if you're going to make a transaction IN PERSON, they obviously won't ask for that code because usually the merchant will type it his/herself in the POS (Point of Sale) Card Reader that will validate your credit card.

I never needed those three numbers when running cards on my POS reader at the restaurant. Also, here in the U.S., a lot of places don't even require your signature or any I.D. Kind of scary when you think about it.

I seriously don't understand why the US credit cards don't have chip and PIN yet- I'm sure it's pricey to make the switch, but fraud went down nearly 50% in some areas of Europe when it was introduced, so surely they save more money in the long run.

The fact that you can do Pay Wave in many US areas for example- just have a card in your hand and automatically have money deduct, with no one checking it- scares the hell out of me because no reason someone can't just steal your card and use it. Only place I've ever seen that work in Europe was at a music festival for pre-paid cards.

code monkey wrote:

Sigma_Orionis wrote:Well good thing you nipped it at the bud.

And I doubt very much someone entered the wrong number, why? in the back of your card there are three numbers, they are known as CVV2 or CVC2 they are part of a larger code that is generated at the same time as your credit card number (and the only one that is supposed to know the whole code is the bank. If someone had entered your credit card number by mistake and THEIR CVV2 it would not match and the transaction would have been declined. I doubt very much that someone would have entered it BOTH by mistake.

thanks for taking the air out of that balloon. i was having a hard enough time with the improbability of a typo or 2 yielding a number that would pass hashing. on the other hand, i'm not always asked for those 3 digits. a modest thief?

The odds that someone could randomly come up with a number (either accidently or intentionally) that was someone's actual credit card number are extremely low. It is a 16 digit number, so we are talking 10^16 combinations (a little less, some of course will be nonsense, like 0000 0000 0000 0000). Even given the first four are the type of credit card, that still leaves 10^12 for each card type. And even without the CVC, you still have to match the expiration date.

But, as others said, often it is only a small transaction, especially to start.

SciFi Chick wrote:

Sigma_Orionis wrote:As for the three digits thing, it depends. if you're going to make a transaction IN PERSON, they obviously won't ask for that code because usually the merchant will type it his/herself in the POS (Point of Sale) Card Reader that will validate your credit card.

I never needed those three numbers when running cards on my POS reader at the restaurant. Also, here in the U.S., a lot of places don't even require your signature or any I.D. Kind of scary when you think about it.

Reading about it, it looks like I was wrong, I figured that if you didn't type it, the POS Reader would get it off the magnetic stripe or chip, but it's not so. Apparently it's only used for transactions that occur when the card holder is not physically at the merchant location. Supposedly, No system is supposed to store it so if someone steals your CC number (not the physical card) they'll have a harder time using it illegally.

Rommie wrote:
I seriously don't understand why the US credit cards don't have chip and PIN yet- I'm sure it's pricey to make the switch, but fraud went down nearly 50% in some areas of Europe when it was introduced, so surely they save more money in the long run.

That is strange. We've had it up here for years. I can't imagine why the US wouldn't.

The fact that you can do Pay Wave in many US areas for example- just have a card in your hand and automatically have money deduct, with no one checking it- scares the hell out of me because no reason someone can't just steal your card and use it. Only place I've ever seen that work in Europe was at a music festival for pre-paid cards.

Yeah, that gets me, too. On my card, there's a limit - it can only be used for purchases under $50. But I don't think there's a maximum number of times that you can do it, until you hit your (optional) daily spending limit.

The scariest part is that someone can walk up to you with a skimmer in their hand, wave it around your ass, and pull your CC info right out of your back pocket. I'm seriously considering getting a wallet with a built-in Faraday cage to prevent it. You can get them on ThinkGeek.

Swift wrote:The odds that someone could randomly come up with a number (either accidently or intentionally) that was someone's actual credit card number are extremely low. It is a 16 digit number, so we are talking 10^16 combinations (a little less, some of course will be nonsense, like 0000 0000 0000 0000). Even given the first four are the type of credit card, that still leaves 10^12 for each card type. And even without the CVC, you still have to match the expiration date.

i know. remember what my work is. it's just that i'd prefer not to think that that nice waiter/waitress was a thief.

code monkey wrote:it's just that i'd prefer not to think that that nice waiter/waitress was a thief.

And they may not be. Restaurant systems are apparently very easy to hack, which is why I've taking to paying cash at restaurants.

geonuc wrote:

code monkey wrote:it's just that i'd prefer not to think that that nice waiter/waitress was a thief.

And they may not be. Restaurant systems are apparently very easy to hack, which is why I've taking to paying cash at restaurants.

Happened to my aunt and uncle. They were driving from New Hampshire to Florida and they stopped at a random restaurant in Maryland, paid by card, call from the company the next morning. Apparently what had happened is once they had the card info stolen they had people buy several hundred dollars worth of merchandise at a Target store a few miles away, several times.

Good news was they had only used that card at that restaurant recently, so they could nab the guy who stole their credit card info.