FWIS3

This is a bit of a rant and I know I've complained about this before.

I have a Garmin Oregon 450 GPS, designed and used for hiking. Since I bought it a few years ago, it's been nothing but a pain. Now, it refuses to read the expensive maps I bought (from Garmin, not a third party).

The map failures aside, even when the thing works properly, I have two big issues with it.

1. It has a non-intuitive interface. I don't know how many times my wife and I have stopped before a hike trying to figure out one function or another prior to starting a hike. I know, if you use it a lot, you'll become familiar and this won't be an issue. But I don't use it that much and I hate that I have to spend time figuring it out almost every time I use it. When was the last time you had to figure out Google Maps? Garmin needs to hire some people who work for Google.

2. Speaking of non-intuitive, their proprietary software for managing the device and maps, Basecamp, is about as bad as you can get. Here, the software designers have taken the worst parts of Microsoft Windows and Apple to create a horribly confusing interface. The software claims to be able to do many things with the track data and the device, and I'm sure it can. I just don't have the patience to figure it out and their instruction videos are woefully inadequate. Plus, again, if I figure it out, because I don't use the thing that much, I'd have to do it all over again because of the non-intuitive nature of the interface.

My buddy works for Apple and he related a story once about being in a meeting concerning some new product rollout. Seems that people were having trouble using it because it was confusing. The software people suggested the solution of 'training our users' rather than updating the design to be more intuitive. Buddy did a facepalm. Garmin has the same problem.

Right now my big issue is the failure to read installed maps. I have four pre-programmed 24K topo maps bought from Garmin. They are on micro-sd cards that get inserted into a slot in the device (aggravatingly located under the two AA batteries). The one I bought with the device years ago - for the SouthEast US - still works. The device reads it and BaseCamp will recognize it as being installed on the device (when BaseCamp deigns to recognize the device itself, another problem). The other three, which I bought within the last year in preparation for the big road trip, don't work. The device doesn't see any of them as installed and Basecamp doesn't either. They are just very expensive little pieces of crap.

Garmin technicians, after a few back and forth emails that have gone about as well as you might imagine, have suggested that all three sd cards are bad. Really? All three? Great quality control you have there. And there was no offer to do anything about replacing them. I don't believe it. I think there's something up with the Oregon 450 that for some reason doesn't show up with the older SE map.

Using this thing is so frustrating that when I'm in a place with decent cell service, I'll take out my cell phone and check Google Maps to get info on my location. It works and it's more useful. The GPS I leave in my pack, letting it record my track so that when I get home I can tell how long the walk was and the elevation change. You don't need a working sd card map for that.

Yeah, I have a Garmin GPS too for geocaching, but find them frustrating as well. If I'm in the woods so a cell signal no longer works for a GPS unit, then yes, I will use it. But if not, I just use my cell phone for geocaching.

Granted, living in the Netherlands, where cell service is ubiquitous, I am actually suspecting that I lost the damn GPS a few months ago by accident as I haven't seen it in awhile, but can't be fussed to seriously look after it. And I can't bring myself to shell out so much again just in case I might be wandering off into the woods for geocaches, as that's not going to happen for a few months anyway.

Weird, I have two Garmin GPS's, one is a chart plotter on the boat and the other is a handheld I've how had for near a decade.
Never had issues with either.
I must admit I don't use Basecamp. I tried once and thought it was a pile of crap and just gave up.
I have downloaded other maps to the little gps but it's limited (no SD) and has an RS232 cable.
Works very well however and the battery life is incredible. I get over 24 hours on two AA cells.

vendic wrote:Weird, I have two Garmin GPS's, one is a chart plotter on the boat and the other is a handheld I've how had for near a decade.
Never had issues with either.
I must admit I don't use Basecamp. I tried once and thought it was a pile of crap and just gave up.
I have downloaded other maps to the little gps but it's limited (no SD) and has an RS232 cable.
Works very well however and the battery life is incredible. I get over 24 hours on two AA cells.

Maybe it's because it's almost a decade old?

I love the one on the boat, but we've both complained about certain functions being non-intuitive.

In my experience with devices of this type if I don't replace them approx. every 3-5 years they seem to develop "issues". My suspicion is that the company just quietly stops supporting them but doesn't really tell you that the flash ROM needs updating, or the BIOS, or etc.

I like paper maps.

Thumper wrote:I like paper maps.

Me too.

Thumper wrote:I like paper maps.

You can't go geocaching with a paper map.

But when we head across the big, blue, ocean, we'll have four different GPS devices as well as paper charts. We are NOT getting lost.

You can go geocaching with paper maps but it would be a hell of a lot harder.

You can't get lost on the Ocean. The Sun rises in the West, sets in the North and is red at sunset.
Or something like that.

vendic wrote:You can't get lost on the Ocean. The Sun rises in the West, sets in the North and is red at sunset.
Or something like that.

This is why I feel so safe crossing the Pacific, with you, my captain, at the helm of our very large boat.

Our 86 foot monster?

I keep telling people that it's way bigger than it is so they don't panic instantly. Then let them down gently till they just think we're insane instead of knowing it. lol
Strange little world, if I tell people it's 10 foot, they instantly think we're insane and then if you up it, you're still insane.
However, if you up it first they think cool, they know what they are doing. Then when you down scale again they think, they know what they are doing but have a sense of humor.
Go figure.

SciFi Chick wrote:

Thumper wrote:I like paper maps.

You can't go geocaching with a paper map.

Since I don't know what that means, I'm not that worried about it.

People navigated all over the planet, and he||, to the Moon and back without GPS forever. But of course I would never consider you or anyone else making a long boat journey without GPS, emergency radios, sat phones and what not. That would be silly these days. I just know that it can be done.

Regarding paper maps, I just like spreading them out and tracing from place to place. The scale stays the same, you can visualize the distances between points and understand the scale. On a screen, you have to zoom in to see detail or read, then you lose concept of scale. Zooming out to see the entire route and you lose detail. I guess I mean, I do. Also, I can't stand "text only" directions. It seems like you make one wrong turn and none of the roads or waypoints match up to the words on your directions. I need to see the route, see the alternatives, so I can also get myself out of trouble if we make a wrong turn or get lost.

Thumper wrote:

SciFi Chick wrote:

Thumper wrote:I like paper maps.

You can't go geocaching with a paper map.

Since I don't know what that means, I'm not that worried about it.

People navigated all over the planet, and he||, to the Moon and back without GPS forever. But of course I would never consider you or anyone else making a long boat journey without GPS, emergency radios, sat phones and what not. That would be silly these days. I just know that it can be done.

Regarding paper maps, I just like spreading them out and tracing from place to place. The scale stays the same, you can visualize the distances between points and understand the scale. On a screen, you have to zoom in to see detail or read, then you lose concept of scale. Zooming out to see the entire route and you lose detail. I guess I mean, I do. Also, I can't stand "text only" directions. It seems like you make one wrong turn and none of the roads or waypoints match up to the words on your directions. I need to see the route, see the alternatives, so I can also get myself out of trouble if we make a wrong turn or get lost.

*like*

That sums me up regarding maps too.
Though I have made google maps on a gps system and went off road and found paths in between trees.
Can't do that with paper!

Usually when I'm driving in a grove of trees, something has gone wrong.

Well, Garmin sent me an email offering to replace all three 'bad' cards (I don't think they're bad) as long as it was within the one year warranty period. But after I sent the requested purchase info showing <1 year, they reneged and said they could only offer to sell me the three cards (or similar ones) at a discounted price, the same as I paid for the originals.

Yeah, so you aren't honoring your warranty and you expect me to buy the same cards again even though you've provided no compelling reason for the cards being the problem instead of the device. So I'll be out another couple hundred dollars and possibly have six map cards that won't work instead of three? No.

The good news is that I bought one from REI and they have an awesome return policy. The other two, as well as the GPS device itself, I'll just have chalk up to a life lesson.

Thumper wrote:

SciFi Chick wrote:

Thumper wrote:I like paper maps.

You can't go geocaching with a paper map.

Since I don't know what that means, I'm not that worried about it.

Geocaching is a game where basically people hide little boxes (caches) and put the GPS coordinates on the Internet. Then other people go with those coordinates to find the caches. It's really fun and one of my main hobbies! (There's a smartphone app, and I guarantee if you download it you'd be surprised at how nearby the nearest cache is to you right now.)

Re: caching with a paper map, frankly by this point I can often go to the general area of the geocache and find it without serious issue. There's really only so many places you can hide an ammo can in the woods.

Rommie wrote:

Thumper wrote:

SciFi Chick wrote:

Thumper wrote:I like paper maps.

You can't go geocaching with a paper map.

Since I don't know what that means, I'm not that worried about it.

Geocaching is a game where basically people hide little boxes (caches) and put the GPS coordinates on the Internet. Then other people go with those coordinates to find the caches. It's really fun and one of my main hobbies! (There's a smartphone app, and I guarantee if you download it you'd be surprised at how nearby the nearest cache is to you right now.)

Re: caching with a paper map, frankly by this point I can often go to the general area of the geocache and find it without serious issue. There's really only so many places you can hide an ammo can in the woods.

Does it use longitude and latitude? Or do you have to follow them like a pirate map? 2000 paces North and X marks the spot!

Thumper wrote:Usually when I'm driving in a grove of trees, something has gone wrong.

When the property has around 56,000 acres, plus you also have access to the neighbours 130,000 acres and it's all bush land, it's a not super necessary but it will save you a lot of time stopping and using a chain saw to clear a path.

geonuc wrote:The good news is that I bought one from REI and they have an awesome return policy. The other two, as well as the GPS device itself, I'll just have chalk up to a life lesson.

That sucks.

Rommie wrote:(There's a smartphone app, and I guarantee if you download it you'd be surprised at how nearby the nearest cache is to you right now.)

Since I don't know what "download a smartphone app" means, I'm not to worried about it.

We used to play a game like that pre gps, pre cell phone. It was more the treasure map kind of thing but written in riddles.

Thumper wrote:

Rommie wrote:(There's a smartphone app, and I guarantee if you download it you'd be surprised at how nearby the nearest cache is to you right now.)

Since I don't know what "download a smartphone app" means, I'm not to worried about it.

We used to play a game like that pre gps, pre cell phone. It was more the treasure map kind of thing but written in riddles.

You mean that outdated thing known as a scavenger hunt?

geonuc wrote:Well, Garmin sent me an email offering to replace all three 'bad' cards (I don't think they're bad) as long as it was within the one year warranty period. But after I sent the requested purchase info showing <1 year, they reneged and said they could only offer to sell me the three cards (or similar ones) at a discounted price, the same as I paid for the originals.

Yeah, so you aren't honoring your warranty and you expect me to buy the same cards again even though you've provided no compelling reason for the cards being the problem instead of the device. So I'll be out another couple hundred dollars and possibly have six map cards that won't work instead of three? No.

The good news is that I bought one from REI and they have an awesome return policy. The other two, as well as the GPS device itself, I'll just have chalk up to a life lesson.

If I was you, I'd see if Amazon sells your particular brand of GPS, and go do a warning review for people...

SciFi Chick wrote:If I was you, I'd see if Amazon sells your particular brand of GPS, and go do a warning review for people...

Funny you say that. I haven't been an Amazon reviewer even though I spend a lot of money there, but just this week I decided to post a few reviews. I don't think the Oregon 450 is made anymore.

geonuc wrote:I don't think the Oregon 450 is made anymore.

Gee, I wonder why. And that's probably why you aren't getting decent support. I hate when companies do that.

SciFi Chick wrote:

geonuc wrote:I don't think the Oregon 450 is made anymore.

Gee, I wonder why. And that's probably why you aren't getting decent support. I hate when companies do that.

Planned obsolescence... It's real. It's here! Invading your consumer products since 1932.