FWIS3

Currently (finally) reading Fevre Dream. Took me a while to get into the protagonist's head, but OMFG this guy is a good writer.

I've been avoiding the Song of Ice and Fire series for a while, because a) length and b) war crimes. OTOH I've read some of the Malazan novels, which have both in spades, and Martin seems to be a way better writer than Erickson... So I'm thinking maybe I'll look into those... When I have the time, dammit.

Any other particular recommendations?

(I also have Dying of the Light lurking in my basement somewhere...)

Wait, you've gotten as far as Song of Ice and Fire and you're only now worried about war crimes in Game of Thrones?

For some reason, Fevre Dream just didn't appeal to me much. I was kind of excited to read it, but then it was a struggle just to finish it. But I've loved A Song of Ice and Fire. The only problem with the latter is the sheer number of characters to keep track of.

Fevre Dream is one of the better vampire novels, in my opinion.

Rommie wrote:Wait, you've gotten as far as Song of Ice and Fire and you're only now worried about war crimes in Game of Thrones?

No, I haven't read any of that series.

gethen wrote:For some reason, Fevre Dream just didn't appeal to me much. I was kind of excited to read it, but then it was a struggle just to finish it. But I've loved A Song of Ice and Fire. The only problem with the latter is the sheer number of characters to keep track of.

Sheer number of characters can be a problem for me; IMO too much breadth can compromise a story's depth (as far as a the reader is concerned anyway).

When it comes to large numbers of characters I'm blessed that I can keep track of many.

Its only when there are more than about say, four or five characters that I start getting really confused.

Gullible Jones wrote:

Rommie wrote:Wait, you've gotten as far as Song of Ice and Fire and you're only now worried about war crimes in Game of Thrones?

No, I haven't read any of that series.

Ok then. Still, do you have any issues just reading historical fiction then? Because there surely were a helluva lot of war crimes back then, and it's nothing more insane than what happens in GoT. (I'm reading a biography on Catherine the Great of Russia right now, and it's just interesting to see how many parallels there are in said biography to GoT- truth is stranger than fiction.)

Gullible Jones wrote:Currently (finally) reading Fevre Dream. Took me a while to get into the protagonist's head, but OMFG this guy is a good writer.

I've been avoiding the Song of Ice and Fire series for a while, because a) length and b) war crimes. OTOH I've read some of the Malazan novels, which have both in spades, and Martin seems to be a way better writer than Erickson... So I'm thinking maybe I'll look into those... When I have the time, dammit.

Any other particular recommendations?

(I also have Dying of the Light lurking in my basement somewhere...)

I've read the entire Song of Ice and Fire series up until this point. I like it; I'd recommend it. And I generally don't like epic high fantasy. So there's that.

Yes, there is violence. Yes, there are war crimes. Yes, there are Bad Things of a sexual nature. But those things happened in real life. Especially in the middle ages. And the point of the series is essentially to retell the War of the Roses in a secondary world fantasy setting. That's why Martin included them. If that disturbs you, maybe stop reading. But I'd say at least give the first book a chance. If you like it, good. If you don't, put it down.

@TSC: I was unaware of the War of the Roses connection.

Re violence in writing, my tolerance for such things tends to be pretty situational.

e.g. one of Stephen Erickson's antiheroes (Karsa Orlong) is a rapist, a murderer, and a torturer. He's a totally unsympathetic bastard, to the point that he alone convinced me to give up on the Malazan series.

The problem is
a) He never gets any better (so far anyway). In fact, he gets worse.
b) He's an indispensible part of the cast, and the story follows every (literal) gory detail of his adventures, on and on.
c) He's largely invulnerable - immune to magic, has tremendous physical strength, etc. He seems incapable of learning humility, and anyway there's nobody capable of teaching him.

IOW he's basically a personification of rape culture - an invincible sword-swinging juggernaut with a hard-on, and limitless desire to use it. While I recognize a certain value in introducing male readers to such a concept, there's only so much of it I can take before turning away in disgust.

Ah. Yeah, there's generally nothing like that in this series, I don't think. I mean... bad things happen to women at the hands of men. And the culture is pretty brutal. But, again - War of the Roses allegory.

Yeah, I'm with TSC- just give the first one a go and see if you like it. Good chance you might.

I want to write a story about death, destruction, the rape of women, the enslaving of people, the torture of masses, the murder and genocide of millions, the class wars, the race wars and the general evil that people constantly do. I think I'll call it, humanity.

<whispering> GJ... it's fiction.... </whispering>

brite wrote:<whispering> GJ... it's fiction.... </whispering>

Didn't some philosopher decree that God exists because if he didn't the concept of God wouldn't exist and since it does it must be true?

So, on that note, nothing is fiction, it's all real GJ. Everything you read or see is real. Use the force GJ. Use the force! LOL

brite wrote:<whispering> GJ... it's fiction.... </whispering>

Well, fiction can have real power. I can understand GJ not wanting to read something if it would disturb him. Nothing wrong with that. I just don't think that this series would do that. And if it does, you can always put the book down.

Umm, guys, I'm not really that squeamish when it comes to written fiction.

(Movies and television are another matter entirely, thank you very much.)

My problem is more when an author expects me to root for a character who's a one-dimensional violent screwball.

Oh wait this is in the films section. D'oh! It was supposed to go under books.

You might catch me reading Song of Ice and Fire. Watching Game of Thrones... No. Blood on screen = major squick.

Gullible Jones wrote:Oh wait this is in the films section. D'oh! It was supposed to go under books.

You might catch me reading Song of Ice and Fire. Watching Game of Thrones... No. Blood on screen = major squick.

That part, I can get... I used to have a hard time watching sword fights in movies... gun fights were fine... sword fights... not so much... LOL Not sure what the difference was.

Game of Thrones and the the books that go with it is... bloody minded politics at its finest. Or worst, depending on your point of view. Straight out of Machiavelli's wet dreams. You, my dear young friend, would not have survived the political scene of that time. As much as I love you... you are, I hate to say, too much of a bleeding heart.

I love the books and the show, because I love the intrigue and the bloody mindedness of the characters... the scheming and conniving... the truth that if you don't stay one step ahead of everyone else, the chances that you could end up dead is... HUGE! It's an all or nothing game.

And... it's fantasy. (Although there was a time in history, when the "game of thrones" was quite real... Think Renaissance Italy)

BTW... I can move this if you want...

brite wrote:Game of Thrones and the the books that go with it is... bloody minded politics at its finest. Or worst, depending on your point of view. Straight out of Machiavelli's wet dreams. You, my dear young friend, would not have survived the political scene of that time. As much as I love you... you are, I hate to say, too much of a bleeding heart.

You make that sound almost like it's a bad thing.

Gullible Jones wrote:

brite wrote:Game of Thrones and the the books that go with it is... bloody minded politics at its finest. Or worst, depending on your point of view. Straight out of Machiavelli's wet dreams. You, my dear young friend, would not have survived the political scene of that time. As much as I love you... you are, I hate to say, too much of a bleeding heart.

You make that sound almost like it's a bad thing.

No, my love... I think you are the most perfect you, just as you are... I, on the other hand, happen to LOVE cut throat politics.