FWIS3

I am not your typical card carrying Christian. I have jokingly described myself as a pagan, baptist, jesuit, universalist, druidic reformed. And at times you might even throw in Agnostic. I haven't stepped into a church for the purpose of practicing my faith or worship in more years than I can recall. Part of the reason was because of the focus on material things that I seemed to see coming from the church itself. I was 14 when I started loosing *faith in the church*. Something just didn't feel right about passing the collection plate around three times. Once for the usual standard tithe, once for the missionaries in some poor third world country that needed to find Jesus, and a third time so the church could purchase new carpet. It was a really old church. And it did need new carpet.

But, when I try to explain why I am a Christian (or at least identify as one) it is difficult when people see examples like the whack jobs who show up to protest homosexual funerals. Or claim that the U.S. is having such a difficult time because we have strayed from God's way by accepting LGBT rights. And then I found this article. Why I’m a Christian (And Continue to Suck at Being One)

Other religions say: “This world is going to hell. It doesn’t matter. It’s not real, but a shadow, so we wait until we die and escape this. We wait until the next life.” However, Christ teaches that his goal within the resurrection is to transform the world. Christ teaches his goal is a new heavens and new earth here on earth. Not that we convert people to our tribe and wait for God to nuke this place, but that we’re in the business of restoration. That we bring hope to the hopeless. That we help the needy, poor, and oppressed. That we give generously, freeing the captives and the addicted. That we transform the world where disease and suffering are alleviated. That we treat others different than us better than ourselves

This is the kind of Christianity that I want to be a member of. Even if I don't think God takes that much personal interest in us individually.

Well, that's what in the end faith is supposed to be. It does nothing for me, but that what it's supposed to be.

Hey Fisher, no offense intended, but this bit

To them, the cross where Jesus died was a reminder that as good as we try to be, we still need someone to save us from ourselves because at the end of the day we love to compare ourselves to scoundrels. But Christianity teaches that if anything we realize what a train wreck we are, and so when we see people in this light it humbles us.
I know of no other religion that does that.
Other religions say: “This world is going to hell. It doesn’t matter. It’s not real, but a shadow, so we wait until we die and escape this. We wait until the next life.”

is massively ignorant and presumptuous, and basically quite offensive. Also, it is paradoxically the kind of thing that some atheists generalize against Christianity. I think the fellow's article would be easier to take seriously without that howler.

Just from my own experience, Judaism definitely also has that attitude going BTW. No Messianic figure, but there is a huge emphasis on repentance, on acknowledging one's own flaws, and trying to do the right thing anyway. Likewise on doing good here on Earth; in part because most branches don't talk about heaven or an afterlife, or at least consider the afterlife unknowable by the living.

I will also note that - despite stereotypes about Jews and guilt! - being incapacitated by guilt is considered a form of submission to one's baser urges, i.e. not morally desirable at all.

I'm not really familiar with any other religions, but it wouldn't surprise me if most work like this in their more moderate forms.

(Obviously, there are zealots who e.g. consider the Shemah morally equivalent to doing good works, but they're another matter entirely. )

Edit: in short, I'm not annoyed by Christians, but I'm definitely annoyed by people who claim "My religion is the only one that does X!" without doing any research.

Gullible Jones wrote:Hey Fisher, no offense intended, but this bit

Are you aware that 99% of the time this disclaimer is usually followed by something that the recipient usually finds offensive.

Why... yes. Yes, in fact.

SciFiFisher wrote:

Gullible Jones wrote:Hey Fisher, no offense intended, but this bit

Are you aware that 99% of the time this disclaimer is usually followed by something that the recipient usually finds offensive.

oh come on, fisher. i'm glad that you found the article inspiring and a help in articulating your feelings. however, I agree with gj. that is a howler of the first water. with no lead-in of 'no offense intended.' 'wait until the next life'?! hardly. I will simply ascribe it to yet another instance of someone proclaiming that his group is better than others while not knowing as much as he might about thosee others. (and since it's not been a yr since I've encountered such a person, i'm not obligated to say that tongue-twister of a prayer!)

(gj - the overwhelming emphasis is on the current world and acting properly here. afterall, what is the wish/blessing? - may you be inscribed in the book of life for a good year. our obligation? tikkun olam. next to no dogma about the afterlife, mostly inferences/interpretation and left up to one to decide.)

code monkey wrote:

SciFiFisher wrote:

Gullible Jones wrote:Hey Fisher, no offense intended, but this bit

Are you aware that 99% of the time this disclaimer is usually followed by something that the recipient usually finds offensive.

oh come on, fisher. i'm glad that you found the article inspiring and a help in articulating your feelings. however, I agree with gj. that is a howler of the first water. with no lead-in of 'no offense intended.' 'wait until the next life'?! hardly. I will simply ascribe it to yet another instance of someone proclaiming that his group is better than others while not knowing as much as he might about thosee others. (and since it's not been a yr since I've encountered such a person, i'm not obligated to say that tongue-twister of a prayer!)

(gj - the overwhelming emphasis is on the current world and acting properly here. afterall, what is the wish/blessing? - may you be inscribed in the book of life for a good year. our obligation? tikkun olam. next to no dogma about the afterlife, mostly inferences/interpretation and left up to one to decide.)

I reserve the right to say I wasn't actually offended. I did find it interesting that I focused on the part that talked about how a Christian was supposed to be vs how they are in this world. And that GJ was concerned about the part that compared Christianity to other religions.

@Fisher

IMHO it's a bit like a critique of US foreign policy that includes 9/11 conspiracy stuff. It might have good points, but the cranky parts make it hard to take seriously.

If an otherwise sensible article includes something really ignorant and stupid, people will tend to focus on the ignorant and stupid part.

Gullible Jones wrote:@Fisher

IMHO it's a bit like a critique of US foreign policy that includes 9/11 conspiracy stuff. It might have good points, but the cranky parts make it hard to take seriously.

If an otherwise sensible article includes something really ignorant and stupid, people will tend to focus on the ignorant and stupid part.

The author does say *I know of no other religion*. Which is clearly an opinion and one that is based on his experience. It's hardly fair to call him or his opinion ignorant or stupid based on that one or two sentences. Especially since his primary message is that Christians really should start trying to act more like Jesus and a lot less like the Pharisees.

I still find it interesting that we both read the same article and walk away two entirely different views of the message.

So, Why Am I A Christian?
Because I know I’m a train wreck in a dumpster fire. But I also know that God loves me 100% as is, right now, in the midst of the burning carnage that is often my life. I know that if I were to stack up my cards against most church people, I’d fold every time. I’m not that good at following rules, and I run my mouth a lot. And yet, God loves me and is cheering for me as I get better and especially when I fall down. Where I see failure, he sees opportunity for growth. Where I see addiction, he sees an opportunity to take a step. Where I’ve given up, he whispers, “You can make it”.

Religious people sound so credulous and naive that it makes me laugh.

SciFiFisher wrote:I reserve the right to say I wasn't actually offended. I did find it interesting that I focused on the part that talked about how a Christian was supposed to be vs how they are in this world. And that GJ was concerned about the part that compared Christianity to other religions.

perhaps because the point of his comparison was to demonstrate what he finds to be a superior trait.

'unfair to call him ignorant'? fisher, he says that he does not know ... lack of knowing = ignorance.

squid, fisher tries to become even better than he already is. please, let us honor that.

I was laughing at the author of that article, not Fisher

squ1d wrote:I was laughing at the author of that article, not Fisher

Well of course, If I wanted to laugh at Fisher, I'd simply say "KABONG!"

Sigma_Orionis wrote:

squ1d wrote:I was laughing at the author of that article, not Fisher

Well of course, If I wanted to laugh at Fisher, I'd simply say "KABONG!"

I choose to laugh with Fisher.