FWIS3

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Awe

Awe has recently become a topic of interest in atheist groups, in response to statements from some religious individuals who say that atheists do not experience awe, or that experiencing awe makes one spiritual or religious, rather than an atheist. For example, see Oprah's comment that she would not consider swimmer Diana Nyad an atheist because Nyad experiences awe, as well as the response to this video by interfaith activist Chris Stedman.[16]
Awe is often tied to religion, but awe can also be secular. For more examples, see the writings on being an "aweist"[17] by sociologist and atheist Phil Zuckerman, the book Religion for Atheists[18] by author Alain de Botton, and the video on how secular institutions should inspire awe by performance philosopher Jason Silva.[19]

I can't believe people actually argue about this. The stupid, it burns!

Edit: I'd also point out that even a diehard atheist will have a religious experience if you wave a strong enough magnet around the right part of her brain.

Puts a whole new meaning to the phrase "shock and awe", dunnit???

They would be much more productive picking their collective noses......

I'm an atheist. I experience awe. I have zero religious feeling when I do so.

Boy, that was easy to disprove...

The Supreme Canuck wrote:I'm an atheist. I experience awe. I have zero religious feeling when I do so.

Boy, that was easy to disprove...

I'm sorry your evidence is merely anecdotal and therefore is not certified proof. You must conduct a double blind study in a verifiable, reproducible, and scientific method. Until then you will be considered a catholic who has gone astray.

*Ahem*

Bite me.

fisher, you left out the data analysis.

tsc, how do you define the terms 'awe' and 'religious feeling'?

now you 2 play nicely.

code monkey wrote:tsc, how do you define the terms 'awe' and 'religious feeling'?

Awe: That feeling which simultaneously makes you feel insignificant and expansive. Being overwhelmed by emotions at experiencing a sight/song/piece of literature/etc. Being moved to the extremes of human emotion by something magnificent/terrible/wonderful/etc.

Religious feeling: The emotion or state of mind that the awe, as described above, being felt is caused by god/the world spirit/Apollo/etc.

now you 2 play nicely.

Aw... we're jus' horsin' around, is all...

This strikes me as no different than religious people proclaiming their religion. If one believes in god and that god has a hand in all that is, was and will be, then if something awesome occurs, it is the work of god. If an atheist experiences awe, they are therefore experiencing the work of god, even if they won't admit it.

I know people who experience awe every time they look at themselves naked in a mirror.
I always thought that was being a delusional nutjob but apparently its divine. LOL

It would truly depend on whether you were talking about Awe or awe.

At least IMO Awe is a moment when you are struck with a profound sense of reverence by something. A moment when you realize that what is before you cannot possibly have been the result of the ordinary. In some cases this means you might attribute that result as being the work of a divine force (i.e. God). I experience Awe when I look up at the stars at night and realize that we are just a small pin prick in a universe so vast that even with the right technology we may never be able to explore more than just a fraction of it before the entropy of the universe winds down. In the sense that the word awe also used to mean terrifying you can add that too to my feeling of Awe.

awe is what you experience when you are confronted by the terrible/sublime/magnificent etc. for example, I experience awe when I see Vincent Van Gogh's Starry Night. I am in awe of that creativity and talent.

I make no distinction between the two, and find nothing religious or spiritual in either of them. Awe (which, again, is one concept) is merely a human emotion created in the brain when a person is exposed to certain stimuli. There is no hand of god in it any more than there is the hand of god in sadness, joy, or anger.

FZR1KG wrote:I know people who experience awe every time they look at themselves naked in a mirror.
I always thought that was being a delusional nutjob but apparently its divine. LOL

In some cases the line between divinity and delusional is a very thin veil indeed.

The Supreme Canuck wrote:I make no distinction between the two, and find nothing religious or spiritual in either of them. Awe (which, again, is one concept) is merely a human emotion created in the brain when a person is exposed to certain stimuli. There is no hand of god in it any more than there is the hand of god in sadness, joy, or anger.

and again with the anecdotal evidence.

Once again: bite me.

The Supreme Canuck wrote:

code monkey wrote:tsc, how do you define the terms 'awe' and 'religious feeling'?

Awe: That feeling which simultaneously makes you feel insignificant and expansive. Being overwhelmed by emotions at experiencing a sight/song/piece of literature/etc. Being moved to the extremes of human emotion by something magnificent/terrible/wonderful/etc.

Religious feeling: The emotion or state of mind that the awe, as described above, being felt is caused by god/the world spirit/Apollo/etc.

why is an entity required for religious feeling? are religious feelings only associated with awe? could they not be convictions about the proper way to live one's life and treat one's fellow beings?

and why do you want fisher to bite you? wouldn't that hurt?

code monkey wrote:why is an entity required for religious feeling?

Because that defines "religion" for me. Not necessarily a deity, but rather a belief in something outside that which is empirically provable by scientific inquiry. That can be a belief in a god, belief in phlogiston theory, belief in Freudian psychology, etc. If you have no such supernatural entity, you don't have religious belief; if you don't have religious belief, you don't have religious feeling.

are religious feelings only associated with awe? could they not be convictions about the proper way to live one's life and treat one's fellow beings?

Religious feelings can be associated with any emotion or mental state. You just take that mental state and attribute it to your religious entity rather than your own brain.

Convictions about how to live life and treat others are no different. Religious or not, that's ethical philosophy. Whether you choose to attribute that to a religious entity or to secular thought is up to you, but it has no bearing on the fact that it's philosophy. Just as awe can be experienced by a religious person or a non-religious person, an ethical philosophy can be held by either as well.

Basically, what I'm saying is that human mental states (like the feeling of awe or adherence to an ethical philosophy) are universal. They're things that all human brains create. The error that religious people make, in my opinion, is linking these human-created human universals to some sort of supernatural influence. A non-religious person will experience awe and say "Boy. That's awe alright!" A religious person may experience awe and say "Boy. That's awe alright! It is the direct intervention of the Great Gargle-Flarble on my mental state. Praise be the ten supra-gods!"

There's no good reason to do that. It's the same as one person looking at a flood and saying "Yep. Natural disaster" and another looking at the same flood and saying "Yep. Wrath of god."

Of course, I fully expect many religious people to disagree with me.

and why do you want fisher to bite you? wouldn't that hurt?

Honestly? Good question. The English language is odd at times...