FWIS3

It looks like my sister will get to see Astronaut Lovell tonight accept the Inaugural Neil Armstrong Outstanding Achievement Award in Dayton this evening. Also being enshrined into the National Aviation Hall of Fame will be Apollo Flight Director Gene Kranz, though I do not know if he will be in attendance tonight. She said she felt bad that it was her not me. I told her I was thrilled for her and that there was no way I'd be able to get over there in time anyway. She said she'd try to soak it all in for me. I think it's awesome.

Cool

My favorite James Lovell story (you all probably know this one but that never stopped me)....

When they made Apollo 13 he was asked to do a cameo in the movie. He was happy to do it. They wanted him to play a Navy admiral on the receiving ship. He refused to do so; his highest rank in the Navy was Captain, and he would not wear the uniform of a higher rank. This is what the IMDB trivia about the movie says:

Jim Lovell wore his old navy captain's uniform in the scene where he greets the astronauts aboard the Iwo Jima. When Ron Howard asked Lovell if he'd like to be in the film as the ship's admiral, Lovell agreed but pointed out, "I retired as a captain; a captain I will be."

I love it! My sister had a wonderful time. She felt bad that it was her instead of me. I told her in no uncertain terms that she must go, she must have a good time and she must just soak it in and not worry about "reporting" back to me. And she did. She said Lovell was wonderful. All the inductees to the hall of fame were wonderful (or were portrayed as wonderful by the presenters and those that accepted on their behalf when the honor was bestowed posthumously.

She was really thrilled with Gene Kranz. His wife and daughters were there and he basically stated that their love and patience allowed him to be the man he was and accomplish the things he did. Lovell inducted him, and they of course had a vest for him for the occasion. Lovell was swarmed after the ceremony, but she was able to get up and see Kranz, said she sputtered about how much her brother liked him and respected him. Then she got his autograph and a picture with him. She gave me the autograph.

Thumper wrote:I love it! My sister had a wonderful time. She felt bad that it was her instead of me. I told her in no uncertain terms that she must go, she must have a good time and she must just soak it in and not worry about "reporting" back to me. And she did. She said Lovell was wonderful. All the inductees to the hall of fame were wonderful (or were portrayed as wonderful by the presenters and those that accepted on their behalf when the honor was bestowed posthumously.

She was really thrilled with Gene Kranz. His wife and daughters were there and he basically stated that their love and patience allowed him to be the man he was and accomplish the things he did. Lovell inducted him, and they of course had a vest for him for the occasion. Lovell was swarmed after the ceremony, but she was able to get up and see Kranz, said she sputtered about how much her brother liked him and respected him. Then she got his autograph and a picture with him. She gave me the autograph.

Awesome.

If you haven't read Kranz's book, it is definitely a good read.

I've read it, it's in my truck, I'm letting my sister have it tomorrow. Yeah, I enjoyed it.
Those guys are so totally my heroes. I got to wondering who are people's heroes these days? Seems like you might find them few and far between, like perhaps Malala Yousafzai.

Thumper wrote:I've read it, it's in my truck, I'm letting my sister have it tomorrow. Yeah, I enjoyed it.
Those guys are so totally my heroes. I got to wondering who are people's heroes these days? Seems like you might find them few and far between, like perhaps Malala Yousafzai.

We live in a culture that devalues hero's. Hero's are a product of "honor" cultures. Society is devolving (IMO) into a victim culture. There are a number of good articles out there that discuss the victim culture vs honor culture paradigm. Frankly, being a product of an honor culture I am rather horrified by the victim culture. In the end there will be fewer hero's. And those who do try to step forward will be ostracized and treated as if they do something wrong.

Well, that's pretty sad. It certainly seems like we try to tear people down though.

SciFiFisher wrote:

Thumper wrote:I've read it, it's in my truck, I'm letting my sister have it tomorrow. Yeah, I enjoyed it.
Those guys are so totally my heroes. I got to wondering who are people's heroes these days? Seems like you might find them few and far between, like perhaps Malala Yousafzai.

We live in a culture that devalues hero's. Hero's are a product of "honor" cultures. Society is devolving (IMO) into a victim culture. There are a number of good articles out there that discuss the victim culture vs honor culture paradigm. Frankly, being a product of an honor culture I am rather horrified by the victim culture. In the end there will be fewer hero's. And those who do try to step forward will be ostracized and treated as if they do something wrong.

Oh come on now old farts, my generation has heroes too. I'm not saying we still go to the moon, but Chris Hadfield is pretty amazing for one. Lots of scientists and Silicon Valley guys get reverence too that I don't think sci/tech has seen much of before.

Chris Hadfield is certainly one of MY heroes. And maybe he'll have a little more recognition because he was in a youtube video playing guitar. But I suspect far less people will have heard of him than almost any of the guys from the Apollo era. There are major release movies and HBO mini series that feature Kranz, a pencil pusher, as a rock star. You mention his name and people that know squat about the manned space program will go, "Oh yeah, the 'Failure Is Not And Option' dude!"

I would say the recognition, fame, and duration of such was much greater for those folks. Sure there are very accomplished people in many fields now that are an inspiration, but I think it's a much narrower, limited recognition. Famous people now seem to be celebrity based and as Fisher pointed out, once they reach a certain level, we try to tear them down.

But yeah, you're right, we're old farts.

Thumper wrote:But yeah, you're right, we're old farts.

Hey, I have a GI disease! It's not my fault.



But yeah, this is the Good News thread, keep out the gloom and doom.

I think every generation has its heroes and there is no decrease in them. Tell me that Malala isn't a hero, or those guys on the Paris-bound train that stopped the terrorist.

Just wait until we go back to the Moon and on to Mars. (Or Phobos? Some asteroid?) Anyway, the next people to walk on a new world will be the next heroes.

And next week I get a chance to talk with someone that might be one of them. I don't say I get to meet him, because I already know him! I went to college with one of the current astronaut candidates. He was a fellow physics major, a senior when I was a freshman, and I took philosophy of science and was in the Society of Physics Students with him.

Our college's homecoming is next week. It's his 20th reunion and he is there as a featured guest. I'll get to spend some time with him at a department seminar.

This puts "astronauts as rock stars" into a completely different perspective for me. Of course, it is freaking awesome that I know an astronaut. Only 536 people have flown into space, and he'll be one of the next added to the list!

But on the other hand--it's just Josh! I knew him when he was a regular person. Each of those astronauts was a regular person, too.

Swift wrote:I think every generation has its heroes and there is no decrease in them. Tell me that Malala isn't a hero, or those guys on the Paris-bound train that stopped the terrorist.

And every generation had its charlatans that were seen as heroes at some time, just ask Count Cagliostro.

Great news, PumpkinPi.
That's cool.

Yeah, to be clear I'm not going to pretend Chris Hadfield is up there with Jim Lowell or Neil Armstrong. But damn, we're not exactly going to the moon these days are we?

Elon Musk has a lot of reverent tones about him of late btw, but the cynic in me also wonders if that's just a really good PR team helping it along.

Regarding knowing astronauts, one of my friends in high school was a lovely girl who was the daughter of one so I chatted with him a bit as a "normal" person. The second her younger sister was out of the house, though, their mother filed for divorce- turns out he wasn't a really good person, and in fact the younger sister had all sorts of issues with anorexia and the like as a teen that may have been connected. So yeah, for better or worse, they really are all just normal people.

Had coffee with the astronaut. He told me he'd be happy to fly his jet to my museum for an event some day. No big deal...