Gee, after twenty years of Stephen Covey nonsense.....

[code monkey]

because, sigma, talk is cheap. i'm not convinced that the happy talk pays off in satisfaction or productivity, fisher.

and that boss who explained that workers want recognition and not money? he'd gotten a 15% raise, far more than anyone else and was assuring everyone that he understood as he's gotten practically nothing. how did i know what his raise was? i'd been called in to fix a problem in the personnel system. the damnable thing was that i couldn't say anything.

[Sigma_Orionis]

Yeah, I know that organizations do that because it's dirt cheap and requires almost no effort. So, even if one out of ten employees actually buys it, it works for management.

The thing is that after 20 years of doing it, I am pretty sure they must have hit diminishing returns (specially with the Great Recession doing its part). I think that by now, all that nonsense must hurt the organization as whole more than it fixes.

I am also of the opinion that if Middle Management and HR itself act like they're believing this stuff its even more risky. Because when the shit hits the fan (and it always does) You get close to mass walkouts. I've been witness to it at least twice. (or maybe I am pretty good at working in extremely toxic environments.....)

For all I know it works for people in Marketing. (I am pretty sure that in IT, doesn't work at all). So maybe I'm being parochial

[code monkey]

Yeah, I know that organizations do that because it's dirt cheap and requires almost no effort. So, even if one out of ten employees actually buys it, it works for management.

For all I know it works for people in Marketing. (I am pretty sure that in IT, doesn't work at all). So maybe I'm being parochial

coincidence does not equal causality. are people staying because of the happy talk and recognition ceremonies or because nobody likes doing job search or starting over at minimum vacation, unvested in the pension plan and besides what makes you think that things will be any different at another place and the market reeks?

of course you're not parochial. people in it are analytical and perceptive and can see through the nonsense. we're also overworked and would rather spend what little time off that we have trying to get some rest rather than updating our resumes.

[Sigma_Orionis]

Nope, coincidence doesn't equal with causality. But that has never stopped Management from doing whatever it wants. After 20 years in IT I can attest to that

Edited for Clarity

[Swift]

Yeah, I know that organizations do that because it's dirt cheap and requires almost no effort. So, even if one out of ten employees actually buys it, it works for management.

The thing is that after 20 years of doing it, I am pretty sure they must have hit diminishing returns (specially with the Great Recession doing its part). I think that by now, all that nonsense must hurt the organization as whole more than it fixes.

I'm with Sigma on this. I really question whether the talk and the pats on the back really have any plus side at all. I know, speaking for myself, that if they have any effect, they lower my moral, because I see them for the hollow, meaningless things they are, and I doubt I'm the only one.

Sure, if 25% of the employees like them, 70% are neutral, and 5% are pissed, then it is an overall benefit. But I made up those numbers, and I more expect it is 5% like them and 25% get pissed off.

I'm convinced that the managers and the HR types believe they help because they want to believe it, and can come up with enough "data" to convince themselves of the answer they want to hear.

[Sigma_Orionis]

Which in this particular case doesn't make them sociopaths, just idiots. For practical purposes it doesn't make any difference. Or does it?

[code monkey]

Which in this particular case doesn't make them sociopaths, just idiots. For practical purposes it doesn't make any difference. Or does it?

as all of my friends in the military say proceed on the basis of capability and not intent.

[SciFiFisher]

Which in this particular case doesn't make them sociopaths, just idiots. For practical purposes it doesn't make any difference. Or does it?

practically speaking sometimes you can outsmart the idiots.

[Sigma_Orionis]

Practically speaking, you can sometimes outsmart sociopaths as well

[SciFiFisher]

Practically speaking, you can sometimes outsmart sociopaths as well

Yes, but theoretically it's easier to outsmart the idiots. Note that I did say theoretically.

And this is why: Never get into a fight with an idiot, because he will drag you down to his level and beat you with his experience.

[Sigma_Orionis]

Absolutely, there are only two ways to deal with idiots.

- Avoid them like the pest.
- Become a Sociopath.

Method one also works with Sociopaths

[Swift]

Which in this particular case doesn't make them sociopaths, just idiots. For practical purposes it doesn't make any difference. Or does it?

Never attribute to malice what may equally be attributed to stupidity.

[code monkey]

Which in this particular case doesn't make them sociopaths, just idiots. For practical purposes it doesn't make any difference. Or does it?

Never attribute to malice what may equally be attributed to stupidity.

that's pretty much what my grad school adviser said!

(90% of the time it's incompetence and not malice.)

[Sigma_Orionis]

The proliferation of opinion pieces like this one is what makes me think that the "employees are our most important asset" meme is hitting diminishing returns.

[FZR1KG]

I've been saying it for years but no one gives a shit.
people seem to love a psycho until they get bitten by one.

[Cyborg Girl]

Well yeah, psychopaths are really nastily good at manipulating everyone around them... After a few close calls though, you start to learn to recognize some of the signs.

("Why am I trying to convince myself this person is wholesome?")

[FZR1KG]

The part that disturbs me about this idiot saying that they are good for the hard decisions is that he's a liar.
Pretty obvious really, it comes with him being a psycho.

They do think fast on their feet, but, it's ALWAYS a lie and ALWAYS about them surviving what ever shit is going on rather than what is good for the company, or what is the right decision to make. It's always the decision that benefits them. Sometimes that also benefits the company but rarely.
So what happens is they get into positions of power, suck the system to their benefit, blame someone else for the mess and while everyone is trying to figure out what happened they are off doing it again or skipping the country so they can't get prosecuted.
Great business model. Only a moron would think it's a good idea...or a psycho who is doing what they do best, lying to gain advantage.

[Sigma_Orionis]

And here we have the real reason for the "employee engagement" racket.

Apparently they think that the US economy has improved enough that at least in certain fields people won't stick to a job for the fear of unemployment.

Retaining Workers in 2014 Requires A Clear Talent-Retention Strategy, Counteroffer Guide

The improved economic activity that is expected in 2014 is likely also to prompt increased employee turnover this year, John Reed, senior director of the recruiting firm Robert Half Technology, told Bloomberg BNA Jan. 6.

[Swift]

Here is the latest stupidity from my wife's job hunt.

She was applying to some company the other day, doing the on-line application. At some point in the process they give you a check-box where you have to agree to the following (I'm paraphrasing):

- You promise that if you get to the point in the application process where the company wants references, that YOU will contact your references and YOU will arrange to have your references contact the company so as to arrange a phone interview where the company discuss you with your references.

WTF

In other words, the company isn't going to contact your references, you have to do several back-and-forths between each of your references and the company, so as to set-up phone interview times. This is instead of them just calling your references.

She (wife) wisely decided "fuck them" (though she is too nice to have phrased it that way).

[FZR1KG]

Probably experience from hiring Shedandoah Country employee's where you can never contact a reference but get excuses like, "he just left for Europe, if only you had called a yesterday", "she went into surgery yesterday and will be in ICU for a month" etc.

[Sigma_Orionis]

Now, THIS is employee engagement...