Banana Republic Newsflash

[Sigma_Orionis]

So it seems like the Chinese are learning the hard way that dealing with Third World governments is very hard. Can't feel sorry for them though.

They have a lot of business dealings in Africa, too. I wonder how that's working out for them?

No idea,

Get on it, already.

Also, you can't end a sentence with a comma.

What's the matter? Can't Google on your own?

I found some dirt coming from the CATO institute that claims that things ain't all thar rosy there either. There's also a piece on the NY Times about that

I'll fix the post JUST to make you happy

[Swift]

You can end a sentence with a comma,

Or an ampersand&

Or a plus sign+


They're just not grammatical.

[geonuc]

[Sigma_Orionis]

:cuss:

[geonuc]

:cuss:

x 10E

[Sigma_Orionis]

:cuss:

x 10E

x ∞

[SciFiFisher]

Science Geek Humor.

[Sigma_Orionis]

You say that like it's a bad thing

[SciFiFisher]

You say that like it's a bad thing

The PC police probably think it's a form of elitism. But, I sniggered anyway.

[Swift]

:cuss:

x 10E

x ∞

I see your cussing and

[code monkey]

So it seems like the Chinese are learning the hard way that dealing with Third World governments is very hard. Can't feel sorry for them though.

They have a lot of business dealings in Africa, too. I wonder how that's working out for them?

No idea,

Get on it, already.

Also, you can't end a sentence with a comma.

it's quite obvious that he can. he just did.

[Sigma_Orionis]

The chances for getting rid of Nicky without a Civil War went from unlikely to almost zero

Ok, it's official the only way out of this mess is an all out civil war.

Venezuela's Maduro recall referendum drive suspended

The Military has been trying to keep out of this, I don't see how they're going to continue to do that.

[SciFi Chick]

So sorry!

[Sigma_Orionis]

Thanks

[Cyborg Girl]

Ah, shit. I just read about this on WaPo.

Best of luck, Sigma.

[SciFiFisher]

It will end badly. I am just hoping that it ends badly for as few people as possible. Perhaps a nice quiet military coup in the middle of the night. Nicky takes a long vacation somewhere... with the fishes. A few cronies go missing in the night. And then Venezuela gets down the business of putting itself back together. Keeping the proper phalanges crossed.

[Sigma_Orionis]

It will end badly. I am just hoping that it ends badly for as few people as possible. Perhaps a nice quiet military coup in the middle of the night. Nicky takes a long vacation somewhere... with the fishes. A few cronies go missing in the night. And then Venezuela gets down the business of putting itself back together. Keeping the proper phalanges crossed.

Honestly I don't think we'll ever be able to put this country together. As long as the people who own this place learn some pragmatism. In my experience, that is not possible.

[Cyborg Girl]

Ugh. I'm reminded of an article I read, by a Venezuelan journalist, talking about the popular concept of "vivo". He made socialism in Venezuela seem... utterly naive and hopeless. Like a trying to stick a modern quad-core processor in a 90s Dell workstation: it doesn't matter how good the political system is, if the social framework isn't there to support it.

[Sigma_Orionis]

Ugh. I'm reminded of an article I read, by a Venezuelan journalist, talking about the popular concept of "vivo". He made socialism in Venezuela seem... utterly naive and hopeless. Like a trying to stick a modern quad-core processor in a 90s Dell workstation: it doesn't matter how good the political system is, if the social framework isn't there to support it.

You know, after 18 years of "Socialism", I really REALLY have a strong dislike for that word. I presume you refer to the form of regulated Capitalism that is used in Western Europe or Canada.

By the looks of it, "the social framework" for it won't exist in the foreseeable future either.

[SciFiFisher]

Ugh. I'm reminded of an article I read, by a Venezuelan journalist, talking about the popular concept of "vivo". He made socialism in Venezuela seem... utterly naive and hopeless. Like a trying to stick a modern quad-core processor in a 90s Dell workstation: it doesn't matter how good the political system is, if the social framework isn't there to support it.

You know, after 18 years of "Socialism", I really REALLY have a strong dislike for that word. I presume you refer to the form of regulated Capitalism that is used in Western Europe or Canada.

By the looks of it, "the social framework" for it won't exist in the foreseeable future either.

Part of the reason IMO is that Capitalism has to be reasonably non-corrupt and benefiting the majority of the people. Here in the U.S. we are seeing the results of the benefits not being as fair as they used to be. The expression "Going to hell in a hand basket" comes to mind.

[Sigma_Orionis]

I think that the whole thing about the "vivo" culture is overblown. I've really never seen that in action except in small fry things. HOWEVER, I've seen MASSIVELY bad decisions (out of sheer incompetence) with no consequences for those who took them. SO,when that exists it's at the highest levels of power (both public and private), not so much for "Joe Average". IOW: the culture of "vivo" certainly exists here. HOWEVER, it's not all that obvious at the "Average Joe" level. INCOMPETENCE certainly is. What I have also seen is the absolute contempt that people in charge have for people down the hierarchy. Management here has only two ways to deal with rank and file: They either threaten you (when they can) or they treat you like you're mentally retarded (that's their version of "Emotional Intelligence" in action ) That's why I think that Left Wing politics are so popular here. Basically, we have been and will be (for the foreseeable future) a Medieval Culture. Compare the "Power Distance Index" metric of Venezuela here to that of any other country. Ours is as high as China (which should tell you a couple of things) I suppose that the culture of "vivo" can be mapped to the "Indulgence" metric there, who knows.

In any case, Being good at what you do is irrelevant, you don't get rewarded for that, you get much better rewarded for "good relations" (I suppose those two can be mapped to the "Individualism" and "uncertainty avoidance" metrics) than for being good at what you do. Result? people with any skill at getting things done LEAVE.

I'll give you a better example with Trump. When Trump was busy polishing off the other Republican candidates for the nomination he was like Chavez (and appropriately enough, it tells you a lot about his opponents huh?) , EVERYTHING was about how great he was. Now, that he's on his way to the crapper he is as hapless and pathetic as Maduro. In short: imagine a country where EVERYONE in power is expected to behave like Trump, and you have Venezuela.

Edited for Clarity

[Cyborg Girl]

In short: imagine a country where EVERYONE in power is expected to behave like Trump, and you have Venezuela.

Please excuse me.... I have to go outside and scream incoherently for a few minutes.

[Sigma_Orionis]

And to make things more bizarre this happens:

#BREAKING UNASUR, MUD, PSUV and Vatican Announce Dialogue

What's bizarre about it? allow me to explain:

In recent weeks I have noticed that Chavistas are split over Nicky & Co using our hacked job constitution as toilet paper. At least some of the Chavistas are absolutely appalled at all the interference the Government has thrown at the Referendum Process. And about the fact that the State Governor Elections have been delayed. So, if part of the Chavistas are pissed off or weren't even aware that another part of them are going to "negotiate" with the Opposition, it doesn't surprise me.

What surprises me is that a lot of Opposition leaders weren't aware of this, they found out on TV like everyone else. And they're not too happy either.

The opposition delegation was also…peculiar. Present were few, and there is still much confusion about just how cohesive this decision was given this recent tweet from HCR, saying they learned of the meeting when they saw it on TV.

WTF? Dudes, you have been outgunned for the last 15 years because of your sheer stupidity. So, now you go around and start these "talks" without at least giving a heads up to all your major players? If you are unable to even try to reach a consensus on something like this, how can anyone on their right mind trust you to at least attempt to fix this mess we're in, let alone navigate the country through the damned minefield we'd be in assuming the Chavistas actually loosen their grip on the country peacefully? No wonder the international community pays no attention to us. Both sides are completely hapless. IF this was the first time this happened one could say "Ok, it's a messy situation, fuckups are inevitable" BUT THIS IS THE THIRD TIME THIS HAPPENS, there is NO EXCUSE.

This is NOT the so-called "Vivo Culture" this is sheer incompetence. IF Chavismo were to collapse tomorrow, the opposition would just sit there and say "ok, now what?"

I doubt very much these "negotiations" will go anywhere. At this point it's obvious that trusting the government is stupid. But now, it looks like it's impossible (once again) to trust the opposition.

[SciFiFisher]

A small ray of hope. If things fall apart enough you might be able to claim political asylum.

[Sigma_Orionis]

A small ray of hope. If things fall apart enough you might be able to claim political asylum.

At this rate I doubt it.

And in other depressing news. I think I know why half the opposition wasn't notified of the new negotiations. The Vatican Communiqué

This meeting, held under the auspices of UNASUR’s General Secretariat, represented by its Director of Political Affairs, included the Holy See and former presidents Leonel Fernández, José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero and Martín Torrijos, as Mediators.

Zapatero is the same idiot that presented the pathetic proposals to call off the referendum in exchange for nothing back in June. If he's in this, the same group is in this. Since Capriles and Lopez told Zapatero to screw himself that explains why nobody told them (or the others) the rest of the opposition probably will cave in and this disaster will continue. This country is damned to hell.