How do you watch this shit?

[Cyborg Girl]

There's an article about The Walking Dead on NPR. I regret even reading the damn thing.

http://www.npr.org/2016/10/24/499189538 ... 7-premiere

It's... all-powerful psychopaths. And faces pulped with baseball bats. And RAPE RAPE RAPE RAPE RAPE!!! because THIS IS REALITY!!!

I'm not asking for a gentle treatment of zombie apocalypses. I'm not asking for less gore-sex-adrenaline-porn. I'm not asking for less rape, or less blood, or less machismo, or less anything.

I'm just asking: why in the bloody hell would anyone want to watch this? This is completely gonzo. I've never seen a movie even remotely close to that gruesome. Just the article above has more graphic violence and gore than most entire novels that I've read. I can think of two novels that approach that level of disturbing; one was a pointless pile of shit that left me depressed for six months, and the other was a work of art that gave me nightmares for three days running. Allow me to repeat here, I am this disturbed by a review of a TV show on NPR, not even the show itself.

Why would anyone want sit on a couch watching this crap on a weekly basis? I know I'm not a paragon of meek tastefulness here, but my God, what is wrong with the human race that so many people think this is entertainment?

[SciFiFisher]

If you are asking that question there is no real answer that will satisfy you.

[Cyborg Girl]

I seek to cause head-scratching, not to satisfy any curiosity.

On a related note, articles criticizing the show's treatment of female characters seem to attract 95% angry raving as comments. You want intelligent comments, you have to go to dedicated (and moderated!) feminist blogs. Funny, that.

(And speaking of treatment of female characters. Apparently most of the women in TWD attempt suicide at some point, but hardly any of the men. Guys, guys, I know that men tend to be better at certain things, but seriously, come the fuck on! That is not "reality is sexist", it's just fucking sexist.)

[SciFiFisher]

I seek to cause head-scratching, not to satisfy any curiosity.

On a related note, articles criticizing the show's treatment of female characters seem to attract 95% angry raving as comments. You want intelligent comments, you have to go to dedicated (and moderated!) feminist blogs. Funny, that.

(And speaking of treatment of female characters. Apparently most of the women in TWD attempt suicide at some point, but hardly any of the men. Guys, guys, I know that men tend to be better at certain things, but seriously, come the fuck on! That is not "reality is sexist", it's just fucking sexist.)

The sub text is that all the weak, prone to suicide males, got ate and turned into zombies.

[SciFiFisher]

In pragmatic terms the average viewer, and a few of the not so average ones, prefers grim ugly post apocalyptic futures for their weekly series.

Shows that have tried for a kinder gentler mankind after the end of civilization usually don't make it past the mid-season cuts.

[Cyborg Girl]

The sub text is that all the weak, prone to suicide males, got ate and turned into zombies.

But the ladies with those tendencies didn't? Because... uh... why?

In pragmatic terms the average viewer, and a few of the not so average ones, prefers grim ugly post apocalyptic futures for their weekly series.

Shows that have tried for a kinder gentler mankind after the end of civilization usually don't make it past the mid-season cuts.

Oh I get that. It just seems like a... rather striking failure of imagination, that the writers can't come up with scenarios other than "big manly men protecting their ladies". I mean, come on: for people who can survive the zombie apocalypse, at least temporarily, the collapse of civilization is one hell of a power vacuum. All the more so if those people have utterly weird ideas of what the new order should be.

[SciFiFisher]

Oh I get that. It just seems like a... rather striking failure of imagination, that the writers can't come up with scenarios other than "big manly men protecting their ladies". I mean, come on: for people who can survive the zombie apocalypse, at least temporarily, the collapse of civilization is one hell of a power vacuum. All the more so if those people have utterly weird ideas of what the new order should be.

Oh, the writers can come up with other scenarios. If the viewers won't watch them... It's the guillotine for that show!

Frankly, the viewers seem to lack the imagination. Most of the "civilization just ended because of (insert your favorite scenario here)" shows are aimed at the eternal 15 year old who wants to be horrified, thrilled, identify with an underdog, identify with a villain, gratuitously feel like he is the hero, etc. Don't worry they usually throw in a few female characters for the eternal 16 year old girl to identify with. Victim, Harlot, Quietly Enduring, Good Girl Gone Bad, and Heroine. Supporting roles supplied by Mom, Dad, and the little brother with a big target on his back.

[squ1d]

Because GJ, it is horror. Some people like horror, and a lot more people like survival horror. Some people find the feelings of fear that can be inspired by watching such a show exhilarating. Some people find the idea of a world where we return to survival and instinct to be an utterly compelling one. Despite all the brutality that entails. I know this idea is a personal bugbear of yours, but our base animal nature bubbles just beneath the surface.

The female characters in TWD are awesome. They are not all damsels in distress.

I can't stand it when people criticise something without seeing it first. It is total bullshit.

TWD is close to the best show on television at the moment!

[Cyborg Girl]

@Fisher

So when critics call a show "innovative", they really just mean "it's violent enough to make you forget that it's just a bunch of hoary cliches"?

@squ1d

There are countless examples of horror that do not fixate on gore, or on women being intrinsically weak.

Re "not all damsels in distress", forgive me for trusting people who study this shit for a living over your intuition as a viewer.

Criticizing things without seeing them, huh, would you say I shouldn't criticize Left Behind without reading the whole damn thing?

As far as "our base animal nature"... Fuck off. Humans are not ungulates. This is literally Anthro 101 material.

[SciFi Chick]

GJ - As another viewer - and I don't know what you consider an expert - you are just wrong, wrong, wrong.

squid is right. Some of the women on this show are fucking awesomely strong. One of them has had an arc in which she went from being abused by her husband to being one of the most bad ass fighters on the show. The wife of one of the characters that died is also a bad ass fighter and survivor.

Your rant about this show is misplaced and completely inappropriate. And Fisher needs to be supervised by brite, because he's actually just fucking with you and winding you up more.

Yeah - this week's premiere was brutal and might be enough to stop me watching the show. It's certainly going to make me stop watching until my life is in a better place, but that's the season premiere of season 7. I haven't decided yet, if they decided to get particularly brutal because it's season 7 and they wanted to shock us just for the fun of it or not. But I do know that one of the character's who died is one of my favorite characters, and now, I, personally, have no desire to watch it. Mainly because I think it's gotten a bit nihilistic.

But your rant about rape is ridiculous. Your rant about the show is ridiculous. And your rant at squid is absolutely rude and obnoxious.

[squ1d]

Re "not all damsels in distress", forgive me for trusting people who study this shit for a living over your intuition as a viewer.

I was suggesting you form your own opinion by watching the show or alternatively, just not talk about it so you don't embarrass yourself further.

But then it seems all of your opinions are formed by the second hand experiences of others and your desire to be outraged.

SFC has tried to explain to you about the female characters .. you know, stuff she learnt by watching the show, so I won't bother with that.

As far as "our base animal nature"... Fuck off. Humans are not ungulates. This is literally Anthro 101 material.

The base animal nature of humanity and our battle with it is a common theme in a lot of literature. In case you'd missed it, it's also a common theme in history.

I anxiously await your next outpouring of outrage.

[vendic]

I think you're reading reviews of the show written by people who have a really messed up version of reality.
I've watched the show since the beginning but haven't seen season 7 since i'm busy working on the boat.
Here's the reality.
1) No characters have committed suicide for no reason. Both men and women have however committed suicide though it's only a few. When I say few, it's hard to recall the ones that did though many have done it after being bitten. IOW's kill yourself before turning into a zombie and endangering your companions. I personally don't consider that suicide. One that I do recall did so when they realised that the CDC had no cure and she was living for the cure. She committed suicide with a male by staying in the CDC building when it went into self destruct mode.
2) One could argue that the female characters on the show are stronger than the male characters. The main male lead broke down and a woman had to save the group, more than once. Several women have saved the group more than once. The male characters have screwed up more than the female characters. Does that help balance your feminist biased opinion of the show you know only by reading reviews? I would argue that the female characters in the show are stronger than the males. Michone, Carol and Maggie are hard assed fighters and highly intelligent to boot. I'm not sure what your reviewers were basing their information on.
3) You are arguing someone else's opinion really passionately yet you haven't seen the show. You are doing so with people have watched the show and disagree with your reviewer's opinions. Ever watched someone argue physics against physicists based on some crackpot's article? You might just be doing the same thing here. Just saying. IOW's you might just want to consider the possibility that your opinion is wrong because it's based on the opinion of someone else who is wrong.

Having said that, I like the show even though for some seasons it was very boring. Yeah, boring. I called it the talking dead. Then they made a show called the talking dead which made sfc and I laugh. It's an apocalypse show that's character driven. It pushes the characters to the limits and has fun with seeing where it takes them. ALL characters have strengths and weaknesses. If anyone thinks it's sexist, they are the ones being sexist. As for RAPE RAPE RAPE, it's hardly there. To be honest in a show like this they have dialed down the level of rape that there would be under such circumstances. But I know what you mean. In an apocalypse situation it would be highly disturbing if there was even one woman raped. Thankfully we aren't in an apocalypse so there is no rape in this world at all.

[Rommie]

So I never saw the show, but I did just read the linked article and am super confused as it doesn't mention rape or sexual assault at all. But then I'm not one to get super outraged about stuff I don't watch.

[squ1d]

That's because there is no rape in the episode. Or most of the series in fact.

[SciFi Chick]

That's because there is no rape in the episode. Or most of the series in fact.

One could probably make a case for there being less rape in this apocalyptic show than in the real world.

[geonuc]

I think you're reading reviews of the show written by people who have a really messed up version of reality.
I've watched the show since the beginning but haven't seen season 7 since i'm busy working on the boat.
Here's the reality.
1) No characters have committed suicide for no reason. Both men and women have however committed suicide though it's only a few. When I say few, it's hard to recall the ones that did though many have done it after being bitten. IOW's kill yourself before turning into a zombie and endangering your companions. I personally don't consider that suicide. One that I do recall did so when they realised that the CDC had no cure and she was living for the cure. She committed suicide with a male by staying in the CDC building when it went into self destruct mode.
2) One could argue that the female characters on the show are stronger than the male characters. The main male lead broke down and a woman had to save the group, more than once. Several women have saved the group more than once. The male characters have screwed up more than the female characters. Does that help balance your feminist biased opinion of the show you know only by reading reviews? I would argue that the female characters in the show are stronger than the males. Michone, Carol and Maggie are hard assed fighters and highly intelligent to boot. I'm not sure what your reviewers were basing their information on.
3) You are arguing someone else's opinion really passionately yet you haven't seen the show. You are doing so with people have watched the show and disagree with your reviewer's opinions. Ever watched someone argue physics against physicists based on some crackpot's article? You might just be doing the same thing here. Just saying. IOW's you might just want to consider the possibility that your opinion is wrong because it's based on the opinion of someone else who is wrong.

Having said that, I like the show even though for some seasons it was very boring. Yeah, boring. I called it the talking dead. Then they made a show called the talking dead which made sfc and I laugh. It's an apocalypse show that's character driven. It pushes the characters to the limits and has fun with seeing where it takes them. ALL characters have strengths and weaknesses. If anyone thinks it's sexist, they are the ones being sexist. As for RAPE RAPE RAPE, it's hardly there. To be honest in a show like this they have dialed down the level of rape that there would be under such circumstances. But I know what you mean. In an apocalypse situation it would be highly disturbing if there was even one woman raped. Thankfully we aren't in an apocalypse so there is no rape in this world at all.

I agree. I especially agree with the part about the show getting to be boring.

There's no rape in this episode and little in the series.
The women not only are strong but are considerably less stupid than the men.
I couldn't recall a suicide until reminded of the CDC episode. It's not a thing in TWD.

I also agree with SFC when she's says she may not watch the show any more. I have had trouble with the ridiculous plot themes, stupid characters and excessive emotion/angst for some time. Last season was especially bad. Now, if the writers are going to add over-the-top brutality to the mix, that may be enough for me.

GJ, in answer to your OP question, I watch the show because I like post-apocalyptic themes and zombies. I just wish the acting and writing was better in TWD.

[SciFiFisher]

GJ - As another viewer - and I don't know what you consider an expert - you are just wrong, wrong, wrong.


Your rant about this show is misplaced and completely inappropriate. And Fisher needs to be supervised by brite, because he's actually just fucking with you and winding you up more.

You can't prove that. I may have been trying to get him to understand why people watch shows like this.

And I don't need to be supervised either.

[Sigma_Orionis]

And I don't need to be supervised either.

Tell that to brite

[Parrothead]

I haven't watched the show, but the only mention of rape in the series, according to the linked article, happened in the graphic novel. It doesn't sound like that part got carried over to the tv series.

[vendic]

Well, I just watched the infamous episode.
No rape there just like the rest of the show.
It wasn't as bad as I expected but I imagine the shock of seeing Glenn die if I didn't know it was going to happen would have been tough.

As for weak female roles, whoever thought that is a complete and utter fucking moron if they think this show or this particular episode portrays it. As has been pretty typical in this show, a female character is the one left after everyone is devastated and she opts to fight on. The only thing I can think of for anyone to think this show is sexist is that it is. It shows women regularly being the strong ones and save the day. Anyone thinking otherwise has a serious axe to grind. pun intended.