The Persecution of Christians

[The Supreme Canuck]

Can we talk about what it isn't, please?

It isn't persecution when you're told you need to abide by the First Amendment.
It isn't persecution when you're told you need to haul that cross off the schoolroom wall.
It isn't persecution when you're told you need to refrain from building a twenty foot high granite monument to the ten commandments on the courthouse lawn.
It isn't persecution when you're told you need to stop trying to force others to adopt your beliefs and morality by force of law.
It isn't persecution when you're told you need to back the fuck off with the proselytizing, because you're in my personal space.
It isn't persecution when you're told you need to recognize that secularism and state neutrality regarding religion is not the same as government denunciation of Christianity and advocacy of atheism.
It isn't persecution when you're told you need to stop claiming your ideas are immune from criticism and that you have the right not to be offended.
It isn't persecution when you're told you need to let others hold whatever beliefs they want, even if that means they don't love Jesus.
It isn't persecution when you're told you need to stop claiming all non-Christians are evil and deserve to be tortured in a pit of fire forever.
It isn't persecution when you're told you need to realize that when people disagree with you, you aren't being disrespected, insulted, or otherwise told to be silent.
It isn't persecution when you're told you need to realize that when you claim a person disagreeing with you is persecuting you, you are exercising your religious privilege to maintain dominance over a minority and to silence them.

This post brought to you by a profoundly irritating religious conversation elsewhere on the internet, and by Christian/theistic privilege. Thank you.

Edit: I'd also like to add that if you don't see the incongruity is first saying "Every religious group is protected by political correctness - except for Christianity, which is the only religion it is acceptable to insult" and then saying "Atheists are the most hateful people in the world. If you spend so much time hating god, you must believe in him" and your comment is then followed by about thirty comments by others expressing agreement with you... well. Your blindness to your own privilege and your martyr complex are pretty full-bore, aren't they?

[cid]

A list of extremely pertinent and totally valid points expressed very well.

And you're welcome.

[code monkey]

A list of extremely pertinent and totally valid points expressed very well.

And you're welcome.

what he said.

[Loresinger]

it is not persecution when you go into a country that has other beliefs and are not met with "welcome"

[gethen]

And, contrary to my mother-in-law's opinion:
It is not persecution when the government decides to arrest and try both Christian clergy who have sexually abused children and those who have aided and abetted this abuse.

[Cyborg Girl]

Wait what?

[FZR1KG]

Wait what?

Its God's will...

[The Supreme Canuck]

And, contrary to my mother-in-law's opinion:
It is not persecution when the government decides to arrest and try both Christian clergy who have sexually abused children and those who have aided and abetted this abuse.

They're just out to get them, don't you know!

Ugh. Yeah, that goes on my list...

[gethen]

Wait what?

Well you know, it probably only happened once or twice and the "victims" are just after money and the media are blowing it all our of proportion.

[FZR1KG]

So long as it only happened once or twice its ok?
Now, what time frame are we working on, like, once or twice a month, week, day etc?

[The Supreme Canuck]

Wait what?

Well you know, it probably only happened once or twice and the "victims" are just after money and the media are blowing it all our of proportion.

Also: "It's just a few bad apples. Don't blame the whole church for that! It's not like there was an institutionalized cover-up going all the way to the top! Nope, just a few bad apples!"

[FZR1KG]

Wow TSC.
You sound like my cousin in Oz.

He who say's he has an open mind but nothing I say will change his mind...ok.

[The Supreme Canuck]

Er... what? I'm referring to the Catholic Church here, specifically. Things were covered up, and it did go right up to Rome.

Bishops have been arrested.
Cardinals have been implicated.
Archdioceses have paid hush money to keep victims out of the media.
The government of Ireland has found that, and I quote, "the Dublin Archdiocese's pre-occupations in dealing with cases of child sexual abuse, at least until the mid 1990s, were the maintenance of secrecy, the avoidance of scandal, the protection of the reputation of the Church, and the preservation of its assets. All other considerations, including the welfare of children and justice for victims, were subordinated to these priorities. The Archdiocese did not implement its own canon law rules and did its best to avoid any application of the law of the State."
Clergymen have been convicted of covering up sexual abuse by priests (Google Monsignor William Lynn or Bishop Pierre Pican).
Clergymen, including Cardinals, are on public record stating that clergy who have failed to denounce abusers to the police are right to have done so.

I don't see how recognizing these things is evidence of having a closed mind. These are all verified facts. Often, they are the findings of criminal courts or public inquiries. This is not just a few bad apples; there are serious systemic issues in the Catholic Church, and they go all the way up to the Vatican. At the very least, up to the College of Cardinals.

So again, please: how am I being close-minded?

[FZR1KG]

LOL

Also: "It's just a few bad apples. Don't blame the whole church for that! It's not like there was an institutionalized cover-up going all the way to the top! Nope, just a few bad apples!"

That is what I was referring to.

Surely you know my view on the Catholic Church, right?

[The Supreme Canuck]

I thought I did. Your post seemed... odd. Sarcasm doesn't come through very well on a forum - maybe I hit a nerve.

[SciFi Chick]

I thought I did. Your post seemed... odd. Sarcasm doesn't come through very well on a forum - maybe I hit a nerve.

His cousin would say everything you said and mean it. But he was definitely being sarcastic.

[FZR1KG]

I thought I did. Your post seemed... odd. Sarcasm doesn't come through very well on a forum - maybe I hit a nerve.

Sorry. I just figured you'd get my sarcasm.
Don't take me seriously again

[The Supreme Canuck]

I generally take you to be joking, but part of my anxiety is that I always think I might be unintentionally offending someone. I won't make that mistake again.

[SciFi Chick]

I generally take you to be joking, but part of my anxiety is that I always think I might be unintentionally offending someone. I won't make that mistake again.

Wow. That explains a lot about some of our interactions when you first joined FWIS.

Luckily, I know you well enough now to be quite sure if you're offending me, it's intentional.

[The Supreme Canuck]

Hm. Curious. I'd like to know what you're talking about. PM me?

[SciFi Chick]

Hm. Curious. I'd like to know what you're talking about. PM me?

Done.