Buckle Up Buttercup

[SciFi Chick]

Wow. So extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, but this made me sick to my stomach just to read- https://twitter.com/michaelavenatti/sta ... 60576?s=21

Like, I legit hope it’s not true because that would just be so awful for so many. Like not even thinking about the politics. But I suspect Avenatti is a savvy enough lawyer to not publicly say such things if there isn’t evidence behind it- I guess that’ll come out soon enough.

That is soooo incredibly fucked up. Like you, I hope it's not true. And if it is true, why the fuck did it not come to light before now? This isn't the same as a woman, for whatever reasons, keeping it secret for years. It's not the same as parents who want to keep it all hush up. This is legit, horror movie level, conspiracy theory level badness. Really hoping it's not true for many reasons. Really afraid it is though, and I can just kiss my recent look at the world as a positive place mentality goodbye.

(Also, another woman with an accusation dating to college. It's weird how there is legit a schedule now for when more accusations come out, it takes about a week I’ve noticed.)

Yeah, but her accusation is just lame. I'm sorry. Some guy showing you his penis - just get over it. If he didn't touch you, get over it. I know y'all will disagree and tell me how insensitive I am to the trauma that the mere sight of a penis can create, but I don't care. This is nonsense. The other thing you posted blows this crap out of the water.

[SciFi Chick]

Okay... I'm watching funny videos on YouTube to try and get this off my mind. Failing miserably. I really, really, really hope this is bullshit, because I'm literally going to puke if it's true. I could tell y'all stories about my family that are just as horrific, but I don't want this to be a thing. I want it to be unusual.

Fuck me. I can't handle the inhumanity.

Of course, I don't trust this lawyer as far as I can throw him, so I have hope, and I will cling to it until it's proven otherwise.

I just don't want y'all to think that just because I offer opposing views that I have no empathy. Because I do.

[SciFiFisher]

This may explain why Kavanaugh, the white house, and the Republican senators on the Judicial Committee were all saying "The FBI doesn't need to investigate this". Because they KNEW there were other allegations. They KNEW there were skeletons in the closet.

[Cyborg Girl]

^^^ this

Also why they had the letter signed by 60 other women who knew him they day the first thing came out.

@SFC - I'm sorry. It really does suck.

If it helps, I think sunlight is going to be a hell of a disinfectant, given time.

[Rommie]

(Also, another woman with an accusation dating to college. It's weird how there is legit a schedule now for when more accusations come out, it takes about a week I’ve noticed.)

Yeah, but her accusation is just lame. I'm sorry. Some guy showing you his penis - just get over it. If he didn't touch you, get over it. I know y'all will disagree and tell me how insensitive I am to the trauma that the mere sight of a penis can create, but I don't care. This is nonsense. The other thing you posted blows this crap out of the water.

I think this is a very important part in the original article:

As Kavanaugh’s confirmation hearings became a national story, the discussions among Ramirez and Kavanaugh’s classmates took on heightened urgency, eventually spreading to news organizations and to the Senate. Senate aides from Ramirez’s home state of Colorado alerted a lawyer, Stanley Garnett, a former Democratic district attorney in Boulder, who currently represents her. Ramirez ultimately decided to begin telling her story publicly, before others did so for her. “I didn’t want any of this,” she said. “But now I have to speak.”

Personally, I can very much understand this sentiment. She didn't really want to talk about it, but all her former classmates have been emailing back and forth about this incident for months, so if the story is coming out anyway she wanted to put on the record what happened as she can best remember it. Then people can judge for themselves how important or not this information is (as you're doing).

Personally, remembering what I was like at 19 (and y'all can remember me back then too), I'd be pretty traumatized at that age had some guy done that to me while I was drunk. It doesn't strike me as all that impossible to believe someone else would feel that way.

[SciFi Chick]

Personally, remembering what I was like at 19 (and y'all can remember me back then too), I'd be pretty traumatized at that age had some guy done that to me while I was drunk. It doesn't strike me as all that impossible to believe someone else would feel that way.

The difference, of course, is that anyone who did that to you would be lucky to get nourishment through a straw, but I see your point.

[Rommie]

Next allegation is up. Sworn affidavit style.

Well I feel icky all over reading that.

[geonuc]

A good blog article on the current climate regarding sexual assault accusations by an author I follow:

https://agingmillennialengineer.com/201 ... -and-sons/

I disagree with her apparent implication that if you fear false accusations then you probably engaged in questionable behavior when you were younger, or your male family members did. Otherwise, she's on point.

[Rommie]

That's a great essay. I particularly like this line:

Do you think so lowly of the entire male gender that you consider them incapable of figuring out whether or not they have obtained consent?

I will note that, politics or not, no one had such accusations against Gorsuch, or really anything major to complain about him or his character. I find it pretty thin that people are saying "Democrats always do this!" when, ya know, we literally just went through this with the current players and it didn't.

I will also note that I'm getting pretty tired about hearing about how this will ruin Kavanaugh's life. Last I checked, no one's life is ruined because they don't get to sit on the Supreme Court. Also similarly, FFS he's interviewing for a job, this isn't a court proceedings, and I'm pretty sure most sane places to work wouldn't want to hire a guy for a high-level position (or any position) who gang raped girls in high school but was too drunk to remember.

I guess I'm getting increasingly bewildered that they keep defending him by this stage. I mean geez, there's plenty of normal Gursuch-type judges out there who will tow the conservative line, and honestly I don't think it's so weird to have your first pick not go through based on my recollections of recent history. Probably could even get a second one through by November if you are literally just picking them off a list as Trump says he is. Of course, now it's become an even bigger deal than it should have been (likely because the president has engaged in similar things, and everyone's ok with that), so I'm not sure the establishment can blink.

Weird times, you guys.

[Cyborg Girl]

If it ruins his life, he'll have earned it a dozen times over. What a disgusting creep.

[SciFi Chick]

I guess I'm getting increasingly bewildered that they keep defending him by this stage.

It's worse than that. Something like 42% of Republicans, based on a recent poll, don't care if he's guilty. They still want him as a Supreme Court judge.

Off to ram my head repeatedly into a wall now.

[SciFiFisher]

And we now have a fourth accusation of improper behavior. https://www.theblaze.com/news/2018/09/2 ... us-accuser

This one is from 1998. He apparently, while drunk, pushed a woman up against a wall and aggressively pressed up against her in a very sexual way. She is anonymous, for the moment.

[SciFiFisher]

I guess I'm getting increasingly bewildered that they keep defending him by this stage.

It's worse than that. Something like 42% of Republicans, based on a recent poll, don't care if he's guilty. They still want him as a Supreme Court judge.

Off to ram my head repeatedly into a wall now.

Perhaps now you appreciate why I have a problem with most, if not all, of the "conservative" movement.

[Rommie]

Watched a little testimony. Wow, Dr. Ford is awesome. And frankly, I think the nation is incredibly lucky that she is a psychology professor. I don't think I would be half as credible under questioning, but with her expertise she can basically explain "well yeah this is how memories form and this is why I remember these details but not those ones."

[squ1d]

Why is this even happening?

Why isn't there a criminal investigation?

[Rommie]

Because the powers that be are worried about what will come out of said criminal investigation. Better to keep it at a he said/ she said level so we can ignore her.

[squ1d]

I really don't understand the U.S.A.

If this dude is a rapist why isn't he being investigated by the police or the FBI?

How the fuck is the senate qualified to determine guilt or innocence, isn't there a judiciary and a legal process in place for that?

Why is this poor woman being dragged in front of millions? After the criminal investigation is concluded, then it could be done in an automatic formal process that wouldn't require a vote because if the prospective Supreme Court Justice did this, then clearly he's an unfit appointment. I'm sure nobody would disagree.

But why is this being decided in a highly public media circus?

What happened to the rule of law?

[squ1d]

I just think its bad both ways.

If they vote him in, then potentially a rape victim has been publicly humiliated for no reason, and subjected herself to constant harassment for the foreseeable future.

If they don't vote Kavanagh in, then essentially he been found guilty in the court of public opinion without due legal process. And will undoubtedly suffer similar harassment.

This isn't justice.

.... the irony being this is apparently how you appoint your highest Judges.

[Rommie]

Well I think it's because this isn't a trial. This is basically a job interview. As such the standard is not the same.

But yes, it's pretty fucked up that the victim can say she wants an FBI investigation and they're like "eh, let's not."

[squ1d]

Well I think it's because this isn't a trial. This is basically a job interview. As such the standard is not the same.

But yes, it's pretty fucked up that the victim can say she wants an FBI investigation and they're like "eh, let's not."

That is some weird job interview, where uninvestigated criminal accusations are introduced from decades ago, judged in a media circus by people that don't have the correct job description, without the entire formal process in place to deal with such accusations, the chance for discovery, etc, etc. Isn't that why we have all those rules?

If it sounds like I'm defending Kavanah - I'm not - at least not intentionally. My personal opinion is that he's a scumbag and he did it. But where is the rule of law here? This is a ridiculous precedent to set (if it hasn't been set already).

[Rommie]

Well I think it's because this isn't a trial. This is basically a job interview. As such the standard is not the same.

But yes, it's pretty fucked up that the victim can say she wants an FBI investigation and they're like "eh, let's not."

That is some weird job interview, where uninvestigated criminal accusations are introduced from decades ago, judged in a media circus by people that don't have the correct job description, without the entire formal process in place to deal with such accusations, the chance for discovery, etc, etc. Isn't that why we have all those rules?

If it sounds like I'm defending Kavanah - I'm not - at least not intentionally. My personal opinion is that he's a scumbag and he did it. But where is the rule of law here? This is a ridiculous precedent to set (if it hasn't been set already).

Well yes, two decades ago with Anita Hill there was an FBI investigation, and something like 20 other witnesses, to confirm the accusation's veracity. But see my original comment on how the powers that be do not want such an investigation to go forward because they are afraid of what they'd find.

I'm sure someone like geonuc could go into the legal details more than I can about whether you can still do a criminal trial decades after the fact, or what.

[geonuc]

Why is this even happening?

Why isn't there a criminal investigation?

As I mentioned upthread, there are statutes of limitations. Even if the SoL haven't run, I doubt any police jurisdiction would be willing to waste resources on something so old with such little tangible evidence.

[SciFi Chick]

I will note that, politics or not, no one had such accusations against Gorsuch, or really anything major to complain about him or his character. I find it pretty thin that people are saying "Democrats always do this!" when, ya know, we literally just went through this with the current players and it didn't.

This, right here, ended the argument for me. Very good point Rommie. And I agree completely.

I will also note that I'm getting pretty tired about hearing about how this will ruin Kavanaugh's life. Last I checked, no one's life is ruined because they don't get to sit on the Supreme Court. Also similarly, FFS he's interviewing for a job, this isn't a court proceedings, and I'm pretty sure most sane places to work wouldn't want to hire a guy for a high-level position (or any position) who gang raped girls in high school but was too drunk to remember.

It might ruin his life - if it's true. Otherwise, it also might ruin his life because of people who will think it's true if he doesn't get the appointment. That is always the aspect of the #metoo movement that worries me. But again, your point about Gorsuch is well taken.

The only thing I can think of is that they are that desperate to do anything to keep abortion legal so they're pulling out all the stops. But that begs the question - can they not find a conservative judge who's against abortion and doesn't go around assaulting women?

[squ1d]

He decided to go turbo with his testimony. Lip curled in anger one moment, then then blubbering about calendars the next. I get the impression he is not a good human being, and if lying, probably a psychopath.

To be fair I also found Ford's testimony odd at points.

This whole thing is extremely weird. Like a reality TV show you can't turn off. As is international politics with Trump USA.

[SciFi Chick]

He decided to go turbo with his testimony. Lip curled in anger one moment, then then blubbering about calendars the next. I get the impression he is not a good human being, and if lying, probably a psychopath.

To be fair I also found Ford's testimony odd at points.

This whole thing is extremely weird. Like a reality TV show you can't turn off. As is international politics with Trump USA.

Well, yeah. I can't help thinking - constantly - that if we did a movie like this a couple of years ago, EVERYONE would have said that could NEVER happen. It doesn't matter if the President colluded or not. This whole thing is surreal.