Election 2020

[Sigma_Orionis]

@Sigma

A lot of it is also plain old corruption TBH. Most Democrats are not happy pinko hippies, they have corporate (and wealthy individual) donors who they will prioritize over their constituents. And for the ones who aren't there yet, they'll probably get there eventually, because US "lobbying" is pretty much bribery. Corruption and regulatory capture are a huge part of how the US got to be this way, and the Democrats haven't been resistant to that, they've just been less shameless about embracing it.

Maybe, maybe not. I am not going to speculate how corrupt your Democrats might or might not be. I wouldn't put my hand over the fire for any politician, much less for one that's not even from my own country. However, since I live in a fucking Narco State, I am going to have to laugh.

As for your Lobbying system, while it's certainly far from even so, so. I think it's better that the alternative. At least you know who pays what to a politician.

[Sigma_Orionis]

Honestly the cynic in me thinks that they’ll push someone through before January even if they’ve all lost their jobs..

Whatever gave you that idea?

[Rommie]

Not quite on topic, but just wanted to say that yesterday I heard students had begun an impromptu memorial in front of the Harvard Law School for RBG, so I biked down to take a look at it. It was beautiful and full of emotion as such impromptu memorials can be- all the notes people wrote were just wonderful. I swear, "you're the reason I went to law school" and "from now on, we will do this for you -a Harvard Law woman" are exactly the sort of messages I needed to see just now.

I know things are gonna suck on this in the coming weeks, but honestly, not gonna touch that right now because it was good to have a moment of solace and I don't want to impinge on that.

[pumpkinpi]

I had a doctor's appointment this morning. I have birth control that last 5 years, and I'm on year 4 so we're talking about next steps for replacement. My doctor said, "just in case the supreme court takes away our rights to birth control" we can talk about extending it to 7. Studies show it remains effective, the 5 years is just a manufacturer's date.

Creeping into my personal life already.

[Rommie]

Fuck.

On the bright side, +1 for having a doctor who thinks ahead.

[lady_*nix]

Liberals: "Trump can't circumvent the election results, the Constitution doesn't allow it!"

Trump: "LMAO go die alone."

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/09 ... -biden-win

I hope that anything of this sort will be met with nonstop protests, but honestly? I expect most Americans to just accept it and pretend nothing is wrong.

[code monkey]

I had a doctor's appointment this morning. I have birth control that last 5 years, and I'm on year 4 so we're talking about next steps for replacement. My doctor said, "just in case the supreme court takes away our rights to birth control" we can talk about extending it to 7. Studies show it remains effective, the 5 years is just a manufacturer's date.

Creeping into my personal life already.

unsolicited advice - replace it as soon as a relevant case hits mn courts or gets to the supreme court.

[lady_*nix]

"10 things you need to know to stop a coup"

https://web.archive.org/web/20200924101 ... op-a-coup/

This seems like mostly good advice, though I feel like (as with most liberal perspectives) it's hopelessly naive about police in the US. But most of it holds. We can't beat a state apparatus at violence, so if the institutions fail completely, mass civil disobedience is basically the only way to stop the coup.

(And FTR I'm linking the Wayback Machine version because, let's face it, articles like this may start disappearing at some point.)

[SciFiFisher]

And then there was this gem last night. Trump refused to say he would support a peaceful transition of power if he lost the election. He clearly said, "If we throw out the ballots there won't be a transfer, it will be a continuation." https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/wxqm ... n-of-power

The Republicans have been eerily silent on condemning this language. A couple of them have stated that they will support a peaceful transition if the "legally elected candidate wins" or language similar. This implies that they intend to dispute the election if Biden wins. Lindsey Graham has bluntly stated that the Supreme Court is going to choose who the next president will be. Of course, he believes they will choose Trump.

I have to be honest and say that one of my first thoughts after hearing this is that by this time next year we will be in the middle of an actual civil war with people being gunned down in the streets, refugees fleeing to Europe, Mexico, and other nations, and people living in bombed buildings. I realize that seems extreme but it could come to that. Or we might just go quietly like a lot of democracies have and let the authoritarians stay in power. A lot of people may believe that this election will just be contentious and that rules will still prevail. I suspect they will think that even if Trump steals the election they will be able to right the ship and change course in four more years when we have another election for president. I wish I thought that was an option.

[lady_*nix]

@Fisher - welcome to what I (and most other Jews, trans folks, etc.) have been living in for the last four years. We kept trying to tell the majority - Christians, liberals, straight people - and nobody listened, everyone thought the institutions would save us. And now here we are.

Re the Republican failure to condemn this language: of course they haven't condemned it. They love it. The difference between them and Trump is just that Trump says the quiet part out loud.

Edit: FTR I think mass capitulation is much more likely in the US than civil war, and doubt that most of us will be able or allowed to escape. For all our talk of "freedom" and "rugged individualism" and all that, Americans really do love following orders and sticking our heads in the sand.

[pumpkinpi]

Re the Republican failure to condemn this language: of course they haven't condemned it. They love it. The difference between them and Trump is just that Trump says the quiet part out loud.

Are they really that bad? Are they really that happy that he's in office, because there is finally someone bold enough to verbalize their true thoughts?

It seems that yes, most of them really are that bad. I hadn't thought of it that way before you said this.

[lady_*nix]

Yes, they're really this bad, and have been this bad for a long time.

Remember during the Bush Administration, when Bush's lawyer John Yoo argued that the President should be able to order the sexual torture of a child if he deemed it necessary for national security?

https://www.villagevoice.com/2007/07/03 ... f-torture/

In the December debate with Cassel, Yoo was asked: “If the president deems that he’s got to torture somebody, including by crushing the testicles of the person’s child, there is no law that can stop him?”

Yoo: “No treaty.”

Cassel: “Also no law by Congress? That is what you wrote in the August 2002 memo [that went to the president].”

Yoo: “I think it depends on why the president thinks he needs to do that.”

"For the greater good" was always a lie. They just wanted an excuse to be able to torture children, to do whatever they wanted without limit or consequence. The same logic applies now.

[lady_*nix]

A quote from none other than Adolf Hitler:

I would prefer not to see anyone suffer, not to do harm to anyone. But when I realize that the species is in danger, then in my case sentiment gives way to the coldest reason.

They always claim they're Doing What Needs To Be Done No Matter The Cost. A lot of them even believe it. Authoritarian violence always, always, always cloaks itself in the language of necessity.

[code monkey]

i'm not going to go so far as to say that our current president is simply saying out loud what republicans believe and have believed for some time. my feeling is that they don't care what he says but they will support him as long as he nominates judges who will rule to achieve their goals - get rid of the affordable care act, access to abortionetc.

[SciFiFisher]

i'm not going to go so far as to say that our current president is simply saying out loud what republicans believe and have believed for some time. my feeling is that they don't care what he says but they will support him as long as he nominates judges who will rule to achieve their goals - get rid of the affordable care act, access to abortionetc.

I wonder how many of them really believe they are just making a temporary deal with the devil to get where they want? It's amazing how many otherwise honorable people go along with the worst actions just because they are being "pragmatic".

[SciFiFisher]

@Fisher - welcome to what I (and most other Jews, trans folks, etc.) have been living in for the last four years. We kept trying to tell the majority - Christians, liberals, straight people - and nobody listened, everyone thought the institutions would save us. And now here we are.

Re the Republican failure to condemn this language: of course they haven't condemned it. They love it. The difference between them and Trump is just that Trump says the quiet part out loud.

Edit: FTR I think mass capitulation is much more likely in the US than civil war, and doubt that most of us will be able or allowed to escape. For all our talk of "freedom" and "rugged individualism" and all that, Americans really do love following orders and sticking our heads in the sand.

I honestly believed that Trump's only motivation for running for President and accepting the job was to loot the treasury. Something he has done with gusto. I knew he would establish a kleptocracy. I did not realize just how much of an admirer of authoritarians and how badly he wanted to be like Hitler or Mussolini as well. I think he really wished he had the ability to have people whacked for speaking out against him. Not just the egging on of the flying monkeys he currently has. But, a real honest to god SS he could just call up and say "Rachel Maddow called me bad names. I want her shot on 5th Ave tonight". I hope we don't find out if I am right.

Mass capitulation is more likely from a majority of the population. To be honest most people, U.S. citizens included, really want those in charge to tell them what to do. And as long as it doesn't trigger certain responses they will pretty much do almost anything those in authority tell them. Some of the social experiments that have been done along this lines are frightening about what you can get people to do If you present it sternly enough and with enough "authority".

And considering that approximately 40% of the population *mostly* doesn't realize exactly what they are being asked to do there is already a significant percent of the population that won't believe it is happening unless they see it happen to someone they know and like right in front of them. And even then some will have problems processing the information and realizing that they just really saw what they did.

[Rommie]

So, tax returns! (Not gonna lie, when I got the alert I dropped everything to read it.)

I mean, on the one hand I don't think there is that much surprising if you're in a cynical mood/ have been paying attention, and I doubt the base is going to care. On the other hand, $750/year is such a slap in the face sound bite. I paid more as a struggling grad student in Ohio a decade back, and even if you believe there's nothing illegal in there (probably a tall order) it's just such a great example of how messed up the tax system is.

Random other thoughts:

- It probably will get less traction than the sound byte, but holy crap, $400 million in debt. Like, I don't think it even has to be to Russia, no one with that much debt should be in a position of power. Like even if it was all to an American bank even, how insane would the pressure be to ease regulations for their interests.

- Imagine spending $70k a year on hair styling and ending up with Donald Trump's hair

- My line in the NY Times piece that was my favorite was something like "we will be releasing a series of articles in the coming weeks." Oh man is that gonna be fun.

[lady_*nix]

IDK, if all the prior scandals didn't make him any less a god in the eyes of his fans, this certainly won't. And at this point, if he succeeds in his goals as far as voter disenfranchisement and fucking up the election, he could be reviled by a majority of citizens and still retain power. Many a dictator has held onto power while being less popular than he is right now.

I'm not trying to be doomy, honest, just... I don't see this accomplishing anything. His crimes are already known. Like Sarah Kendzior keeps saying (over and over again), it doesn't matter that he gets caught - it matters that he gets punished. No consequences mean no change.

[Rommie]

Which is why I started with:

I mean, on the one hand I don't think there is that much surprising if you're in a cynical mood/ have been paying attention, and I doubt the base is going to care.

To be clear, I think a study I saw said something like 90% of likely voters already know who they're voting for this year. It's an incredibly small number of people who care about politics enough to vote that aren't paying attention. So yeah there's definitely a disturbing percentage of people out there who won't care about this result... but if you can keep shit like this in the news, you'd hopefully get some of those who voted Trump in 2016 but now feel hesitant to sit this year out (or, hope against hopes, vote for the other guy).

[lady_*nix]

@Rommie

Ah sorry. My brain is not in great shape today, IDK.

[code monkey]

anyone remember the 2016 debate with Hillary when he said, in response to Hillary's statement that he hadn't paid taxes, 'that makes me smart'? now we see that the tax bill was achieved via staggering losses and highly questionable, if not totally invalid (rommie you're absolutely correct; $70k for that hair?!) deductions.

so terrible at business or a cheat? oh wait - they're not mutually exclusive.

[Rommie]

Yeah, I remember that line well because tons of people think that way (and I almost feel certain he'll use that line again tonight). You really can't think too hard in turn about how those supporters claim they hate illegal immigrants and welfare queens for not paying taxes.

[Rommie]

So my sister, who is more patient and diplomatic than me, forwarded my dad an email from a few days after inauguration in 2017 where my dad said he drew the line at bribery or a politician using his office to enrich himself, asking whether he'd engage in self-reflection now that the tax returns are out. Shocker, he completely ignored that, instead choosing to talk about how the biggest corruption scandal in history is actually that the Trump campaign was spied on by Obama and that Hunter Biden got millions from the mayor of Moscow...

I mean, I guess at least he's not into the QAnon one? (I confess I always do due dilligence when I get these theories from him, and the reports always don't quite say what he says they do, and mention no illegal activity happened.) When sis pointed out again that that doesn't exactly mean this corruption should be ok just because it's a Republican, the only defense before more attacks on the Dems was "if Trump wanted to be corrupt he could have made way more money than just 70k in writing off his hair and getting a few million in fees from lobbyists at his resorts!"

Like, if your best argument is "a man who thinks we should ingest bleach should be smart enough to be doing more corrupt things than more than the average family makes in a year," that's really not a super compelling argument now is it.

I confess a lot of this makes me sad in part because my father was not like this when he was younger- libertarian sure, but well-read and intelligent from many areas of the news and just skeptical of all politicians. I worry that because I fear my memories of my dad will be tainted by this version of him that welcomes authoritarianism. And it's just crazy how millions of other people in the country are probably dealing with the exact same thing.

[lady_*nix]

Re QAnon. Y'all Christian (and Christian-acculturated) folks here, please read this.

https://newrepublic.com/article/159529/ ... anic-panic

The political powers that be reembracing the Blood Libel is... a really, really bad sign. Like, really bad. Especially with armed neofascist militias openly roaming the streets in a lot of cities. It's not a matter of if the pogroms start, it's a matter of when.

[Rommie]

So yeah, that shit show of a presidential debate last night. I can't say I went into it expecting much, but I definitely was expecting more than the insanity it was- 2016 even was leagues more civil, and this was just a guy with less impulse control than a toddler. (Probably because if my niece ever acted like that she'd be put in time out SO FAST.)

People were criticizing Chris Wallace, but I honestly don't know if there was much he could do without the ability to cut a mic. And people will argue this and that about Biden, but I can't believe anyone will remember much about what Biden did versus Trump being so terrible. Even my mom sent out a joke text of "Biden was so good, I'm worried your dad will vote for him," which yeah y'all know is crazy coming from them.

It's funny though. I know a lot of people who were all "I can't watch this any more" but in some ways I appreciated that it happened because there's just no way to pretend anything right now is normal when watching a presidential debate like that, right? Like if you are the theoretical only person in America who hasn't decided yet, you really can't watch Trump arguing with the moderator or refusing to denounce white supremacists and pretend he's just another politician. Four years ago he at least had a message he could keep going to- outsider gonna drain the swamp!- but now it's just a clear nonstop chaos with no message.

Well, next week with the VP debate I guess that'll probably be less insane, or at least more traditional. And I guess the one after that with the voters asking questions also probably has to be less insane because Trump can't really yell at voters like he did at Wallace. But it's 2020, no one will actually take that bet...