"Brogrammer"

[Cyborg Girl]

http://money.cnn.com/2013/09/10/technol ... index.html

Moron.

Edit: also

At this past weekend's TechCrunch Disrupt conference, two new iPhone apps promoted masturbation and staring at women's breasts -- despite the presence in the audience of professional women and girls hoping to one day join the tech industry.

Wow. Stay classy, guys.

[Sigma_Orionis]

What a Jerk.

[SciFiFisher]

There are always people who feel that being a rude jerk is covered by the first amendment. And it is. But, so is the right to fire them, ostracize them, and the right to laugh at them when they fall from grace.

[Rommie]

An old high school buddy who's doing her PhD in comp sci at MIT posted this a day or two ago- link

Basically another take on why comp sci sucks.

Interestingly it reminds me how maybe 5 years ago when those cell phone codes were first being developed there was a big engineering guest lecture about them and how they'd be useful, and as an example the guest lecturer put such a code on the ass of a woman who was in a suggestive pose (which of course led to awkward jokes during the Q&A). So a woman who was in the class wrote an editorial for the school paper detailing it and how it made her feel like a piece of meat.

Pretty much all the guys I knew of who had attended the class shrugged it off because, more or less, it was a little awkward but not that bad, and frankly they knew the girl and she wasn't attractive enough to be considered a "piece of meat" anyway. And didn't get why I thought the latter was bullcrap and made me feel uncomfortable in turn to talk to them. Not saying there aren't assholes in all fields, but I think the main thing in comp sci is few people call out the assholes when they come across them.

[Sigma_Orionis]

I've said it before and will say it again.

"This business seems to attract a more than usual amount of passive aggresives and introverts". It doesn't give them the right to behave like idiots though.

The Pycon conference ruckus could be considered subjective. This last thing clearly goes well beyond the lines of unacceptable.

Rommie. IMHO, Your buddy's position is perfectly understandable. If I (and I mean ME, not if I were her) had been there I would have walked out told the organizers why, and refused to attend until they clean up their act.

[Rommie]

Rommie. IMHO, Your buddy's position is perfectly understandable. If I (and I mean ME, not if I were her) had been there I would have walked out told the organizers why, and refused to attend until they clean up their act.

Yeah, that never happened. I think they had someone come talk to the class about sexual harassment after the article got published though.

See I think the thing is a lot of issue at that age is if your'e 21 and in a class where you're the only woman (or very nearly the only one) you're really not in the position to take dramatic action like walking out. It just doesn't cross your mind, frankly.

Hell I'm TAing a second year undergrad class now and it's been liberating to realize when my students are getting disrespectful or acting like idiots I can just tell them to knock it off. When you're in a class yourself and that kind of thing is going on my experience is more you find yourself thinking you feel it uncomfortable but not that you should do anything about it.

[Sigma_Orionis]

See I think the thing is a lot of issue at that age is if your'e 21 and in a class where you're the only woman (or very nearly the only one) you're really not in the position to take dramatic action like walking out. It just doesn't cross your mind, frankly.

Hell I'm TAing a second year undergrad class now and it's been liberating to realize when my students are getting disrespectful or acting like idiots I can just tell them to knock it off. When you're in a class yourself and that kind of thing is going on my experience is more you find yourself thinking you feel it uncomfortable but not that you should do anything about it.

One of the reasons why I would have done it if had been there. I have a strong dislike of being lectured by the PC police, particularly when they overreact. Idiots like these give validity to their claims.

[FZR1KG]

Here I thought the guy in the op was guilty of incest. What do I know?

[Sigma_Orionis]

And regarding this.....

Silicon Valley: How can it attract and keep more women?

Furthermore, Ms Kane warns that certain men in the community make it hard for women to speak out, so many women simply don't.

She points to the rise of the 'brogrammer' culture over the past five years - a type of young male programmer said to exhibit loud and brash behaviour.

Ms Kane believes this move away from the stereotype of the reserved geek and towards a new hyper-masculine personality is an effort by some men to reclaim power.

"We have an extremely aggressive, hyper-sexual, hyper-masculine stereotype of the geek that's starting to take over," she warns, "and that's extremely threatening to women."

Women who do speak up, such as herself, can face harsh criticism.

She believes this environment silences debate.

I don't know if its part of a power struggle. Nevertheless, as much as I hate to admit it, I have to agree with her. Idiots that style themselves as 'brogrammers' should be cut down to size by us who don't agree with their views, this business is hard enough as it is. Assholes like that make it harder.

I'm afraid that this is not going to gather sympathy though.

Dr Whitney says women leave the industry twice as much as men.

"They are just uncomfortable," she explains.

Dr Whitney says there is a lot of unconscious sexism and the long hours also make it hard for women with families.

Bolding mine.

Unconscious sexism? I agree, BUT (yes there's a but) part of it is subjective. I won't argue it though, as long as "brogrammers" are tolerated, it's not possible to argue it.

As for the long hours?, Well this can be a pretty thankless job (I'll save my bitching or whining if you prefer for another post). Not only for developers but for Operations personnel as well, does Dr Whitney think women are under-represented in the Development Community? Maybe she should take a look at IT Operations, where under-represented becomes almost completely absent. It it won't change until END-USERS (yes that includes YOU SWIFT! ) and MANAGEMENT find the results "acceptable".

[Swift]

Good post Sigma.

Ms Kane believes this move away from the stereotype of the reserved geek and towards a new hyper-masculine personality is an effort by some men to reclaim power.

"We have an extremely aggressive, hyper-sexual, hyper-masculine stereotype of the geek that's starting to take over," she warns, "and that's extremely threatening to women."

I have an alternative explanation, though maybe you in the IT industry can confirm.

I wonder if the change in "personality" is driven by the maturation of the IT industry. Early in its history, I suspect the industry was run mostly by geeks, and they tended to be of the "reserved" personality (I speak as such a geek, though not in IT).

As IT has grown, I wonder if now the dominant forces in it are not the technical geeks, but the "business" types. Having had various interactions with them over the years, they tend to be more of the "bro" mindset. For example, I tempted at Bear Sterns back in the mid 80s and they were definitely of the rude joke school of business.

As far as the hours.... yeah. I typically work 45 hour weeks, and that is probably on the low end for most salaried people (that is partially because I spend an additional 10+ hours a week commuting). As best as I can tell, it is universal, and is aimed at all of working stiffs, not just women. It sucks, but it is not sexism.

[Cyborg Girl]

One of the IMO less savory things I've noticed about much of the current feminist movement is what seems like a total hate-on for awkward, geeky types. Which makes sense for the stereotype idea of the naive, misogynistic nerd... But that's a stereotype, right? Which means you shouldn't assume it's 100% accurate... Right?

I find myself in agreement with many, many feminist ideas. But seeing people like me being referred to as creepers and such, because we're shy and have poor social skills... That really sucks. Especially seeing as the men most likely to be creepers are the sociopathic ones who have really amazing social skills, and will make someone feel comfortable right up until they whip out the ketamine.

Not that shy people can't do anything wrong, mind. But there is a world of difference between making people feel uncomfortable because you're awkward and ignorant, and actively exploiting the people around you. Shy people can learn. Sociopaths don't want to learn.

(Okay, time to step off my soapbox...)

I wonder if the change in "personality" is driven by the maturation of the IT industry. Early in its history, I suspect the industry was run mostly by geeks, and they tended to be of the "reserved" personality (I speak as such a geek, though not in IT).

As IT has grown, I wonder if now the dominant forces in it are not the technical geeks, but the "business" types. Having had various interactions with them over the years, they tend to be more of the "bro" mindset. For example, I tempted at Bear Sterns back in the mid 80s and they were definitely of the rude joke school of business.

I think you may be on to something there.

[Sigma_Orionis]

Good post Sigma.

Thanks, now I'll do exactly the opposite of what I preach and post pin-up calendars of Ada Lovelace and Grace Hopper on my cubicle

Sorry, I just HAD to be snarky

I have an alternative explanation, though maybe you in the IT industry can confirm.

I wonder if the change in "personality" is driven by the maturation of the IT industry. Early in its history, I suspect the industry was run mostly by geeks, and they tended to be of the "reserved" personality (I speak as such a geek, though not in IT).

As IT has grown, I wonder if now the dominant forces in it are not the technical geeks, but the "business" types. Having had various interactions with them over the years, they tend to be more of the "bro" mindset. For example, I tempted at Bear Sterns back in the mid 80s and they were definitely of the rude joke school of business.

The "Dominant Forces" in most IT related businesses are MOSTLY "Business Types". it has been like that for a long time. Sure, your Silicon Valley startups are up to the gills with geeks but most of them fade away, usually after the company is successful and the Business Types take over. Of course, there are the Elon Musk and Eric Schmidt (and up to a point Jeff Bezos) type exceptions but it's not the norm. And I don't consider Steve Jobs nor Bill Gates "geeks" . Yes, they created huge tech companies, but they are more Entrepreneurs than Geeks.

[cid]

... two new iPhone apps promoted masturbation and staring at women's breasts...

We need an app for this now?

Talk about reinventing the wheel...

[Rommie]

One of the IMO less savory things I've noticed about much of the current feminist movement is what seems like a total hate-on for awkward, geeky types. Which makes sense for the stereotype idea of the naive, misogynistic nerd... But that's a stereotype, right? Which means you shouldn't assume it's 100% accurate... Right?

I for one have never heard or thought of this.

[The Supreme Canuck]

Yeah, gotta say I'm with Rommie, here.

Hell, I am one of those awkward, geeky males. I've never felt any hostility from any corner of the feminist movement because of it. Not once. I realize that's anecdote, but I've never even seen it happen to anyone.

[Cyborg Girl]

Hmm. Could be I'm getting a really inaccurate impression then. Sorry.

[FZR1KG]

Yeah, gotta say I'm with Rommie, here.

Hell, I am one of those awkward, geeky males. I've never felt any hostility from any corner of the feminist movement because of it. Not once. I realize that's anecdote, but I've never even seen it happen to anyone.

Happens to me all the time