For SFC and FZ

[Rommie]

In the NY Times: 2 Tots, a Sailboat, and a Storm over Parenting

Long and short of it: two parents who had a 3 year old and a 1 year old were making a passage from Mexico to the Marquesas Isles, but after two weeks they needed to be rescued from 900 miles into the ocean when their vessel was unsteerable, and their daughter who'd had salmonella poisoning a week before they left had a rash and fever. So now everyone's shouting they're completely irresponsible for doing so.

I mean, on the one hand reading their blog it's not entirely clear what went wrong, but it sounds to me like these people might've been a touch underprepared (maybe you can read more between the lines)- they kept going between becalmed and stormy weather in a 36 foot monohull to the point where it sounds like their sails just got destroyed. Second, I heard it once and I agree it's probably a good rule of thumb that one shouldn't take a child into a circumstance where if they're ill they can't tell you what hurts, be that remote ocean or third world hellhole. I think showing kids the world is excellent of course, and this would be an incredible adventure when your kids are older (at minimum, can follow basic instructions), but I don't think I'd want a baby out in the ocean where she spends a week unable to sleep due to the waves who'd just had salmonella poisoning. I mean, at least stick close to shore.

Anyway, just thought if you guys have time to comment I'd like to hear your thoughts. And other FWISers too on this I think.

[Rommie]

From their blog:

"I made the cake once the kids were in bed and falling asleep. I burned more calories making it then I did calories combined in the whole cake. When Cora woke up this morning she asked for some of the treat I was making last night because she had smelled it baking as she fell asleep. I lied and told her we ate it up; all the while, the rest of the cake sat on the counter by the dish rack, just waiting for Eric and I to devour it this evening with a cup of coffee, in silence, once the girls were asleep. Sorry for lying to you, Cora. One day, when you are a parent, you will understand. Please know, if you ever read this, I did give you FIVE gumdrops as a conciliatory offer."

Ok, I've never been a parent, but this strikes me as pretty WTF.

[SciFiFisher]

There are times when no amount of preparation can overcome murphy and mother nature. I doubt I would have taken a 1 and a 3 year on a trip of that nature. But, not because of the risk but because two small children like that are practically a full time job. Then you add what would need to be done to crew the boat and I think it would be almost overwhelming if nothing went wrong. And obviously, something went wrong.

If they did adequately prepare they probably had a very small chance at succeeding. But, my guess is they failed the saving throw on the 20 sided die of life.

[SciFiFisher]

and just to prove that some people are freaking idiots I give you this....

At night when everyone is in bed, I sneak around and trim all the sails in a little tighter and put us back on a close reach. The motion is lumpy but people are sleeping so I get away with it. Once everyone is awake I'll widen back up again to a broad reach for the comfort factor.

In essence this idiot made things worse by not ensuring that his passengers and crew were able to get good rest cycles. Thereby compounding his problems and making it almost certain that they would need rescue.

[SciFi Chick]

I don't feel like I have enough information to really rip them a new one. I can tell you that I'm taking more precautions with my cats than they took with their kids. I also think it would have been much wiser for them to go on a large catamaran, because it's much more stable and would have been easier on the children.

To give you an idea - first, I nixed leaving when FZ did because I didn't want to subject the cats to a snowstorm with no heater. Then, we decided to park the boat for a few days so that the cats could get used to it. This worked beautifully.

Next, I wanted to see how they'd react to the ICW. They haven't reacted at all. They don't even mind the motor.

If they had not adjusted to these minor things, I would have had to give up on taking them across the ocean. The whole entire point of this is to get them safely and happily to Australia, not make it worse than being on a plane. If it had failed, I would have been incredibly disappointed, but I wouldn't have pushed on through and risked them.

So I can't tell if this is just bad luck or if they really are idiots. They certainly weren't nearly as prepared as we are, and it sounds like it was more of a one person crew than a two person crew, so I don't think that's a good idea either. There's a reason why I'm learning to sail and then practicing close to land for several weeks. FZ needs to be able to rely on me and vice versa. If one of us does get sick, the other one can handle single sailing for awhile, but if we remain healthy, we won't be at all stressed or exhausted while sailing in the Pacific. It truly will be a vacation. Their trip sounds hellacious.

[SciFi Chick]

From their blog:

"I made the cake once the kids were in bed and falling asleep. I burned more calories making it then I did calories combined in the whole cake. When Cora woke up this morning she asked for some of the treat I was making last night because she had smelled it baking as she fell asleep. I lied and told her we ate it up; all the while, the rest of the cake sat on the counter by the dish rack, just waiting for Eric and I to devour it this evening with a cup of coffee, in silence, once the girls were asleep. Sorry for lying to you, Cora. One day, when you are a parent, you will understand. Please know, if you ever read this, I did give you FIVE gumdrops as a conciliatory offer."

Ok, I've never been a parent, but this strikes me as pretty WTF.

I know! She couldn't spare a sliver of the cake? My gut says, in spite of the kind post I wrote above, that these two are self-involved morons.

[code monkey]

From their blog:

"I made the cake once the kids were in bed and falling asleep. I burned more calories making it then I did calories combined in the whole cake. When Cora woke up this morning she asked for some of the treat I was making last night because she had smelled it baking as she fell asleep. I lied and told her we ate it up; all the while, the rest of the cake sat on the counter by the dish rack, just waiting for Eric and I to devour it this evening with a cup of coffee, in silence, once the girls were asleep. Sorry for lying to you, Cora. One day, when you are a parent, you will understand. Please know, if you ever read this, I did give you FIVE gumdrops as a conciliatory offer."

Ok, I've never been a parent, but this strikes me as pretty WTF.

I know! She couldn't spare a sliver of the cake? My gut says, in spite of the kind post I wrote above, that these two are self-involved morons.

you're still being too kind. one of the children had salmonella a week before they left?

i understand liking cake. i don't understand not sharing it. 5 gumdrops! oh boy. blithering idiot.

[Morrolan]

what CM said...

[FZR1KG]

I'm with cm.
That is just retarded.
Making cake on a boat and lying to your daughter so you can eat it all.
There is something wrong with that couple and not in a minor way.

I wouldn't take a kid out on a boat until they are old enough to walk, talk and let me know what is bothering them.
Kids can go down hill so fast its not funny and you can't give them sea sickness medication.
So then you have a baby rapidly dehydrating and can't get rehydrated. It's stupid.
Add to that taking them one week after salmonella poisoning is screwed up.
Speaking of which, how the hell does a 12 month old baby get salmonella poisoning?
The kid should be either breast fed or have properly prepared and stored commercial food.
Of course if she won't give her kids cake when they ask while on a boat what chance is there of being fed breast milk?
That's alarm bells imho but I could be wrong.

[FZR1KG]

Oh, and getting 100 mile days while complaining about 20-25 knot trade winds.
I have no clue how one manages that. Even in a boat like theirs if they pull 6ish knots they will get about 160 miles a day.
That's a ridiculously slow speed for a yacht in that wind and says there is something seriously wrong with either the boat or the owners ability to sail.
To give you an idea, when we were coming up to Virginia with a faulty mast bracket so sailing only in really slow winds we got about 4.5 knots.
The wind speed was about 10mph in the gusts.

[squ1d]

That thing with the cake ....... no .. words.

The kind of people I smile at while rapidly backing away.

[Rommie]

Regarding salmonella poisoning, looks like she was washing the baby's poopy diapers in the galley sink. WTF- are you telling me they don't have buckets on this boat of theirs? The surprise to me now is the entire family didn't fall down with it and worse.

Yeah, definitely not against cruising, I just think this family is dumb but were in a circumstance where dumb could get really bad really quickly.

[FZR1KG]

Regarding salmonella poisoning, looks like she was washing the baby's poopy diapers in the galley sink. WTF- are you telling me they don't have buckets on this boat of theirs? The surprise to me now is the entire family didn't fall down with it and worse.

Yeah, definitely not against cruising, I just think this family is dumb but were in a circumstance where dumb could get really bad really quickly.

Wow. Seems technology is working against Darwin's theory in this case.

[SciFi Chick]

Regarding salmonella poisoning, looks like she was washing the baby's poopy diapers in the galley sink. WTF- are you telling me they don't have buckets on this boat of theirs? The surprise to me now is the entire family didn't fall down with it and worse.

Yeah, definitely not against cruising, I just think this family is dumb but were in a circumstance where dumb could get really bad really quickly.

Seriously! I have a lovely bucket and one of these.

If I had a baby on board - say in port, because no hope in hell would I take a baby on the ocean - I would have two buckets and two separate washers for the diapers. Maybe that's anal, but I'm a big fan of cleanliness. But even if you're too dumb to have buckets, why not wash the diapers in the sink in the head? Why the galley?

What a moron.

[FZR1KG]

Why not save money and not fit a kitchen sink. You can always wash dishes in the toilet.
No health issues with that.

[Morrolan]

why wash dishes at all?? just hang them overboard in a net, the fish will do the rest, right? right?

[FZR1KG]

It would have been more sanitary.

[Rommie]

For fun (and guess I'm slow to start work this Monday) I moseyed over to their blog to see if there was a follow-up. There was, link for the curious.

Obviously the couple isn't exactly revealing much about what happened and how they ran things knowing all the hate mail they got (though geez look at the pictures- I really hope SpazCat never hits anything half as bad- but I'm sharing it because damn I'm impressed with the National Guard Navy. The guys who rescued this family sound (and look! ) like a classy bunch of guys who probably had a thing or two to say about this couple, but were incredibly professional. As proof I offer this where you get a slight glimpse of how badly things got:

During the two and a half days those four men spent on our lagging vessel, they helped us manually pump our bilge every few hours. They physically held our children during the rough seas to keep them safe. They slept for three nights in a tiny, cramped cabin that poured seawater with every breaking wave. Like us, they couldn’t bathe. They shared our Spartan meals.

Seriously FZ, I know we're good friends, but if this ever happens to you guys I don't care if you survive, I am coming to Australia to punish you for threatening your lives like that.

[FZR1KG]

That's the price of a monohull when things go wrong.
If you do get holed you sink eventually, you can delay that by pumping assuming the hole isn't too big.
We've done everything we can to make this trip safe.
Bought a boat that is well built, put in the appropriate electronics to avoid collisions, put in the flotation to avoid sinking.
Have a JSD for the rough assuming we get into it that bad.
Prepared food wise and water wise for a long trip.
Far longer than it should take.
Repaired the sails and whatever went wrong with the boat.

If something happens to us it'll be a freaky incident that couldn't have been planed for.
The boat should not only float but sail if holed.
Oh, and we redid the steering completely and have a tiller for emergency in case the steering system fails.

I'd love to know what happened to them as it's all still vague. They lost steering and started taking water?
Sounds like two separate issues to me unless they have spade steering and didn't have a water tight compartment if the seals failed on the steering.
That's pretty crazy to go to sea with the above system so I doubt that's what happened but who knows.
I've read about boats sinking because they use brass through hulls fittings that wear out in five years.
It's starting to be a big problem in the USA since manufacturers only need to warranty their product for a few years and brass fits the bill.
The fittings are meant to be bronze. They will last the life of the boat.

But till I read something that actually states this is the reason the boat started taking water and lost steering it's all just guessing.

[SciFi Chick]

I can't afford to use much Internet bandwidth, so I can't listen to this, but maybe Rommie could and report back to us? I'm mighty curious as to what happened. http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-a ... l-for-help - Hmmm... I think I might listen to this on my phone.

[FZR1KG]

Turns out the boat is a true blue water vessel, has a barn door rudder setup and keel mounted.
Very similar to ours. IOW, breaking it won't hole the vessel.

So I have no clue how they managed to break the steering and take water at the same time.

[SciFi Chick]

Turns out my link has a transcript, so it can be read instead of listened to.

[SciFi Chick]

They may not have done everything perfectly, but they should fucking sue the shit out of that satellite phone company. That is wrong on sooooo many levels. Glad we didn't waste our money on one.

[pumpkinpi]

Turns out my link has a transcript, so it can be read instead of listened to.

I was going to share this with you. I listened this weekend, and it was their first interview since the incident. If you hadn't heard any of the back story, it sounded like a fairly routine adventure with unfortunate circumstances. A few things.

--They said they were part of a community of families with young children making such long ocean trips, and theirs was the "oldest."

--The salmonella poisoning was gone, and the baby was cleared to go.

--Even after being under the care of doctors, they still do not know what illness their child had on the boat.

--It was very hard for them to abandon their boat because it was their only home. The mother cried when she talked about that.

Other than Ira pointing out before the story that there had been a lot of backlash on the internet and in the media, there was no debate over whether or not they were acting in the best interest of their children. They were just able to tell their story. It's worth a listen. Not having any experience or even interest in living life on the sea, I can't really judge them.

[Rommie]

Question- how does one get a hole in the middle of the ocean? Not like there are any rocks to hit. Is it just random debris or similar, and is it that big an issue these days or truly a freak occurrence?

And thanks for the info pumpkinpi (I might check out the interview in a bit). There are indeed a lot of families out there who are doing the round the world sailing thing (I have this blog in my RSS feed for example, a family with three kids who left the USA years ago and is now in Thailand). And I know if and when I have kids someday I would love to go off on adventures with them too and show them the world I've loved exploring so much, albeit maybe not a sailboat as I don't know if I love sailing that much.

So I'm not one to criticize such adventures. Though I will still criticize this woman for washing poopy diapers in her galley sink.