14-yr-old faces a year in prison

[SciFi Chick]

for exerting his first amendment right. Or maybe he's a terrorist who manages to obstruct police officers by talking.

If this is article is right, this situation is just fucking dumb.

[brite]

You have to wonder about our need for PCness....

[Rommie]

I doubt that's the full story as to me somehow it screams "two sides to the story." Not sure what it is, or if I'm right, just my spidey sense I guess.

To large degree though while yeah the teacher/cops sound dumb anyone who thinks it's appropriate to wear a shirt with a huge gun on it to school hasn't been to one since Columbine, frankly. And it's been pretty well established by courts these days that schools are allowed to institute dress codes.

[SciFiFisher]

And in an age of zero tolerance they will expel a child for making his sandwich shaped like a gun. What is the penalty for having an actual image of a gun?

[Hap]

...making his sandwich shaped like a gun,,,

Or even saying the "g" word (actually happened-although suspended vs. expelled).

[SciFi Chick]

To large degree though while yeah the teacher/cops sound dumb anyone who thinks it's appropriate to wear a shirt with a huge gun on it to school hasn't been to one since Columbine, frankly. And it's been pretty well established by courts these days that schools are allowed to institute dress codes.

They are allowed to institute dress codes, but this wasn't part of the dress code. They suspended and then arrested the kid.

Like I said, assuming the article is correct. I hope to hear the outcome of this little situation.

[Rommie]

To large degree though while yeah the teacher/cops sound dumb anyone who thinks it's appropriate to wear a shirt with a huge gun on it to school hasn't been to one since Columbine, frankly. And it's been pretty well established by courts these days that schools are allowed to institute dress codes.

They are allowed to institute dress codes, but this wasn't part of the dress code. They suspended and then arrested the kid.

Like I said, assuming the article is correct. I hope to hear the outcome of this little situation.

Oh yeah, if that's what went down for reals I agree that it's idiotic (and probably still idiotic even if it's not quite true).

But perhaps I'm showing the age I went to school in- Columbine was when I was in 7th grade, I imagine it's an even more insane environment in schools now after Newtown, so to some degree for me it seems silly that a kid would wear a shirt like that to school and not expect trouble. (Even in elementary school I remember kids had to change their shirts inside-out if the teachers thought they were inappropriate- Bart Simpson's "underachiever and proud of it!" shirt got that treatment for example.)

[The Supreme Canuck]

Okay, I've got to ask... what the hell, guys? You have a country where owning a real gun is easy, but owning a shirt with a picture of a gun on it is hard. Seems to me that's backwards. Is it that people want to do something to keep guns out of schools, but they can't actually restrict gun ownership (because of the ridiculous gun lobby and the puzzling Second Amendment), so they do this instead?

Nonsense all around.

[FZR1KG]

Okay, I've got to ask... what the hell, guys? You have a country where owning a real gun is easy, but owning a shirt with a picture of a gun on it is hard. Seems to me that's backwards. Is it that people want to do something to keep guns out of schools, but they can't actually restrict gun ownership (because of the ridiculous gun lobby and the puzzling Second Amendment), so they do this instead?

Nonsense all around.

+1

[Morrolan]

Okay, I've got to ask... what the hell, guys? You have a country where owning a real gun is easy, but owning a shirt with a picture of a gun on it is hard. Seems to me that's backwards. Is it that people want to do something to keep guns out of schools, but they can't actually restrict gun ownership (because of the ridiculous gun lobby and the puzzling Second Amendment), so they do this instead?

Nonsense all around.

+2

[Parrothead]

I gotta think that this will get tossed. The kid served his one day suspension for failing to follow school orders, the rest I just get the feeling a judge will toss it.

It also reminds me of the nonsense up here, when a dad got arrested last year because his daughter drew a picture of a gun in classroom and said it was a picture of dad killing monsters. Schools are getting weirder all the time. I figure in another year or two, outdoor recess will no longer be allowed, due to perceived "stranger danger".

[pumpkinpi]

Buster loves Lego Star Wars, and Star Wars in general. He is always playing with the mini Storm Troopers' guns.

He has a LSW t-shirt, I have to check to see if there is a gun on it. I know there is a light saber.

His day care frowns upon gun play so we tell him not to do that when there. But we let him play guns at home. The only thing I don't like him to do is pretend shoot at people.

Arrest me!

[SciFiFisher]

This is a classic case of good intentions and the road to hell...

People tend to forget that children use play to help them resolve the issues they deal with in life. Aggression, themes of violence, and death are all things that play can help a child learn to deal with in a normal fashion. Sadly, our educators and well meaning individuals have forgotten that.

Pretend gun play or pretend weapons can help a child feel brave enough to deal with his fears (such as the monster in the closet). Helping them understand when violence is or is not appropriate is much more difficult to teach and model. It is just easier to ban all forms of aggression including images of violent symbols and force people to beleive that no form of violence is acceptable. Which leads to raising entire generations of meek victims who don't understand the difference between violence, aggression, appropriate confrontation of issues, and conflict resolution.

So, the next crisis in our society will be to teach our children how to like themselves while being doormats.

[FZR1KG]

Well, I'd agree but the overwhelming bullying culture in schools says otherwise.

[Cyborg Girl]

FZ: thank you so damn much for saying what needed to be said there. Srsly.

Fisher: you don't become a doormat because you couldn't get a water pistol for Christmas. You become a doormat because fuckers three times your size consistently stepped on you, and being a doormat was the safest damn thing you could do.

[FZR1KG]

Pretty sure Fisher understands this.

[SciFiFisher]

FZ: thank you so damn much for saying what needed to be said there. Srsly.

Fisher: you don't become a doormat because you couldn't get a water pistol for Christmas. You become a doormat because fuckers three times your size consistently stepped on you, and being a doormat was the safest damn thing you could do.

Read what I said again. Think about it. If all we want to do is teach children how to be politically correct they will never learn how to deal with bullies, aggression, or anything else that requires skills in conflict resolution, threat assessment, and survival.

Teaching children that guns are inherently evil without really bothering to teach them anything else is madness. And that is what the school system is currently trying to do in many places in the US. But, it is not just the schools. There are parents who won't allow their children to play in any way that may be "aggressive". Toy guns are banned in their homes and the child is punished if he plays make believe about guns or aggression. Thereby re-enforcing the meme that aggression is evil and if the child has an aggressive thought or urge then the child is evil. This doesn't teach a child how to deal with his aggressive urges it just teaches him that it is evil.

Teaching children that they are evil because they want to play with toy guns is an extension of the meme that guns are inherently evil. Make a child feel guilty enough about his natural tendency to want to defend himself and you continue to extend the madness and you contribute to making that child a powerless person who becomes a doormat for bullies and more aggressive people in the world.

It is certainly not the ONLY factor but I consider the whole PC BS as a prime contributor to the bullies in school.

[SciFi Chick]

I have never started a fight in my life - not a physical one I mean. I used to pretend play with guns as a child. The old finger method, as I was a girl and didn't get to have any guns. It was sooooo much fun when one of my playmates would pretend shoot me and I could fall on the ground and die dramatically. Amazingly, I have not turned out to be a serial killer.

I also used to have loads of imaginary friends, being an only child and all - I pretended to be in all sorts of imaginary worlds that I learned about on television - Star Trek, Voyagers!, Riptide, The Tomorrow People. It was a very eclectic group of shows, and I couldn't wait to go to bed at night, 'cause that's when I would enter my alternate worlds.

It was a very cathartic way of dealing with what I went through in school every day. kshin and I made up a whole alternate world on the phone during the long summers.

It's why I didn't kill myself. If I had been taught what Fisher is talking about, I really don't think I'd be here now. It never even occurred to me to do violence against my abusers. We could analyze why for a long time, and I assume that's what sociologists are working on now. But telling kids that defending themselves is evil - well, that imo, is truly evil. When did we become a nation of pacifists?

For the record, I have zero respect for pacifists. They expect everyone else to fight their battles for them while they live on their moral high horse. If we convince everyone in the U.S. to be pacifists, we will be invaded and destroyed.