Computer advice needed--Surface Pro 3 running VPN?

[pumpkinpi]

I hope to have better luck getting answers here than the computer stores I've been to.

I want to replace my laptop to be able to do work at home. It's old, big, only runs on ac power, and will probably die soon. We have a desktop, but it's tucked away in the office and not convenient for getting work done while watching the kids.

I figure I might as well go all-in-one and get a laptop/tablet combination. The MS Surface Pro 3 is advertised as a laptop replacement. The most important thing for me is to be able to use a VPN client and remote desktop to access my files at work. I can't get a clear answer online or in stores (ok, I've only been to a couple Best Buy stores) as to whether I can rely on that. If not, it's a waste of my money.

Can anyone point me to a reliable review?

Thanks in advance.

[Sigma_Orionis]

The first thing I need to know, is: which kind of VPN do you currently use?

VPNs usually come in four main "flavors"

PPTP (Microsoft's)
L2TP/IPSEC (almost everyone else's)
SSL (the ones that don't use IPSEC or PPTP usually use this one).
SSTP (this is a new one, never heard about it till today, apparently it's Microsoft's as well)

Now, I know you most probably don't know which one of the four you're using. But, if could tell me what computer program you use to establish the VPN I might be able to find out and give you an answer.

According to this, WIndows RT (the OS that runs on the Surface Pro) has support for most VPNs "flavors".

The Microsoft instructions are wonderfully vague as always. So, they're not of much help

[Thumper]

If you have time to snoop around, CNET has alot of information and reviews. This one may be for the model you're considering.

[pumpkinpi]

I've looked at CNET a bit, but haven't found any direct answer about VPN. The reviews in general are very good, so I think that if it can support it, I'll get one.

The version I use is AnyConnect for Windows XP/Vista/7/8, as described on this page:

https://it.umn.edu/downloads-guides

[Sigma_Orionis]

Ok, you're using Cisco's Anyconnect Software

I do have bad news, according to Cisco, THAT software is not supported on WIndows RT

AnyConnect is not supported on Windows RT. There are no APIs provided in the operating system to provide this functionality. Cisco has an open request with Microsoft on this topic. Customers who want this functionality should contact Microsoft to express their interest.

You can still probably be able to make the Surface establish a VPN to the university, but it's going to require fiddling with the Standard Microsoft software and assistance from the Sysadmins. So, I don't suggest going that route.

[Cyborg Girl]

Sigma, pumpkinpi: the Surface Pro 3 is a full x86 laptop with a touchscreen, not an ARM machine like the original Surface. It runs Windows 8 Pro, not RT; so it should run pretty much anything supported by Windows desktops.

Remote desktop shouldn't be a problem, Windows Pro editions always come with the remote desktop client.

Third-party VPN software might be a problem, if it uses drivers that are incompatible with Windows 8. I know hardly anything about VPN software, least of all for Windows.

(However, if your workplace is using a PPTP VPN, you should tell them to switch to something else. PPTP is cryptographically broken.)

Edit: see here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Surface_Pro_3

As far as I know, any "Surface Pro" will be an x86 laptop with a full Windows OS. If it's just a "Surface," though, then it might be the ARM type that won't run desktop apps.

[Sigma_Orionis]

Ah ok, that's different. Of course it gets messy now

The version of AnyConnect your University uses is Anyconnect 3.1, that does have support for Windows 8.1, though it's a bit flaky.

According to the release notes for AnyConnect 3.1 (from the same place I quoted earlier)

AnyConnect Support for Windows 8.x

Requirements

ASDM version 7.02 or higher

Limitations to AnyConnect Support for Windows 8.x

Upgrading to Windows 8.1 requires you to uninstall AnyConnect, and reinstall it after your Windows upgrade is complete.
AnyConnect is not supported on Windows RT. There are no APIs provided in the operating system to provide this functionality. Cisco has an open request with Microsoft on this topic. Customers who want this functionality should contact Microsoft to express their interest.
Other third-party product’s incompatibility with Windows 8 prevent AnyConnect from establishing a VPN connection over wireless networks. Here are two examples of this problem:

– WinPcap service “Remote Packet Capture Protocol v.0 (experimental)” distributed with Wireshark does not support Windows 8 .

To work around this problem, uninstall Wireshark or disable the WinPcap service, reboot your Windows 8 computer, and attempt the AnyConnect connection again.

– Outdated wireless cards or wireless card drivers that do not support Windows 8 prevent AnyConnect from establishing a VPN connection.

To work around this problem, make sure you have the latest wireless network cards or drivers that support Windows 8 installed on your Windows 8 computer.

AnyConnect is not integrated with the new UI framework, known as the Metro design language, that is deployed on Windows 8; however, AnyConnect does run on Windows 8 in desktop mode.
Verify that the driver on the client system is supported by Windows 8. Drivers that are not supported by Window 8 may have intermittent connection problems.
For Network Access Manager, machine authentication using machine password will not work on Windows 8 / Server 2012 unless a registry fix described in Microsoft KB 2743127 ( http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2743127 ) is applied to the client desktop. This fix includes adding a DWORD value LsaAllowReturningUnencryptedSecrets to the HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Control\Lsa registry key and setting this value to 1. This change permits Local Security Authority (LSA) to provide clients like Cisco Network Access Manager with the Machine password. It is related to the increased default security settings in Windows 8 / Server 2012. Machine authentication using Machine certificate does not require this change and will work the same as it worked with pre-Windows 8 operating systems.

Note Machine authentication allows a client desktop to be authenticated to the server before the user logs in. During this time server can perform scheduled administrative tasks for this client machine. Machine authentication is also required for the EAP Chaining feature where a server can authenticate both User and Machine for a particular client. This will result in identifying company assets and applying appropriate access policy. For example, if this is a personal asset (PC/laptop/tablet), and a company login is used, server will fail Machine authentication, but succeed User authentication and will apply proper access restrictions to this client desktop.

The Export Stats button on the Preferences > VPN > Statistics tab saves the file on the desktop. In other versions of Windows, the user is asked where to save the file.
HP Protect tools do not work with AnyConnect on Windows 8.x.

The first line (ASDM 7.02 or higher) refers to the VPN Concentrator the University uses.

The rest of the notes complains about the drivers the machine will use (irrelevant in this case, because the hardware is new and supposedly fully supported by Windows 8.1). The fact that you might have issues with the Wireshark Protocol Analyzer if it's installed in your machine (quite unlikely ) and a registry hack in some circumstances (apparently regarding WIFI authentication).

It also says that you need to enter the Windows 8 desktop screen (different from the start screen) to use the software.

There is a new version of the AnyConnect Software (4.1) supposedly has better support

[pumpkinpi]

Good info from both of you. Made me realize that I should ask my IT about it. If they don't know if it will work, then it is not worth trying! Might as well get a boring old laptop.

[pumpkinpi]

"yes. the University Cisco AnyConnect VPN works on the Surface Pro 3."

Easy enough.

Thanks for the replies, all. It is good to know a little bit of what's behind why/how it works!

Now I have to read more reviews and decide what version I want.

[Sigma_Orionis]

Well, thanks to GJ's attempt to undermine me out of my dominant position as the "resident PC expert" (I am NEVER to be QUESTIONED! the PFY doing a palace coup on the BOFH! PERISH THE THOUGHT!) I now know that MS also sells x86 based tablets

[pumpkinpi]

And aren't you a better person now that you know that?

[Sigma_Orionis]

NOPE

All of us IT people are like this guy

[SciFiFisher]

NOPE

All of us IT people are like this guy

You mean you are like Mr T?

[Sigma_Orionis]

Nope, we're all supposed to be like the other guy

[pumpkinpi]

Ok, now I'd like some advice about what specs to get.

64GB / Intel i3 - 1.5GHz $800
128GB / Intel i5 - 1.9GHz $1000
256GB / Intel i5 - 1.9GHz $1300
256GB / Intel i7 - 1.7GHz $1550
512GB / Intel i7 - 1.7GHz $1950

I'm pretty certain I'd only consider the first two. I also have to add on $130 for the keyboard/type cover.

This is what I need it for:
--Microsoft Office, mostly Word and Excel
--VPN to connect to my work computer
--Internet, for moderate browsing and access to google apps

No gaming. No heavy movie streaming. I won't store a lot of files on it because those will be on my work computer, and we have a desktop and external hard drive to store my Buster and Russter pics.

So my question is--what will I *not* be able to do if I get the lowest cost model?

[SciFiFisher]

In general you will be able to do "everything" with the lower speed/capacity model. What will suffer is performance. i.e. streaming video, programs that require lots of memory and/or graphics, and anything else that involves large file sizes or mega pixels such as high definition images. Given what you are describing, if it were me, I would go with - 256GB / Intel i5 - 1.9GHz $1300. Mostly because I would be planning to keep it for about 5-7 years. higher processor speed and graphics memory will tend to be functional for longer periods of time. i.e. it won't be quite as obsolete in 2 to 5 years.

If you plan to replace it in 1-2 years then go with option 1 or 2.

[Sigma_Orionis]

Question: the Memory size you quoted, is that RAM or Hard Disk Space?

[Cyborg Girl]

Sigma: those are the hard disk sizes. RAM is 4 GB on the cheaper ones, 8 on the expensive ones.

pumpkinpi: I would shop around a bit more, and see if there are better deals. I will explain my position in below, give me a minute...

Okay, here goes:

Disks. Those are all solid state on the Surface tablets, i.e. small and expensive but quite fast. However, a 64 GB disk is IMO too small for current Windows versions; Windows alone will eat a third of the disk space, never mind programs you install, System Restore backups, etc. etc.

RAM. 4 GB should be quite enough for office stuff. Windows 8 is faster and lighter than Windows 7 on comparable (modern) machines.

CPU. Not of much consequence, all of those have more computing power than the ca. 2007 laptop that I use most of the time (and which still serves me quite well).

I would be recommending the cheapest one, except that the the drive size is not adequate, and the price tag is much higher than similarly powered laptops.

[Sigma_Orionis]

Ok. That makes sense.

Fisher's criterion is good, I usually expect my machines to last me 5 years. So I buy accordingly.

Regarding the rest, I'm afraid I agree with GJ, take a look at this:

http://www.amazon.com/Toshiba-Satellite ... op+core+i3

Toshibas are considered to be the best laptops in the market. a 4 GB Laptop with a 500 GB Hard Drive and an i3 Processor stands at US$ 400. vs US$ 800 for the cheapest Surface Pro 3.

http://www.amazon.com/Toshiba-Satellite ... op+core+i7

a Model comparable to the High end surface Pros, 8 GB RAM, i7 Processor 1 TB Hard Drive for US$ 800 vs US$ 2000.

Unless you have a need for extreme portability, stick to a laptop.

[pumpkinpi]

It's not so much of a need for portablity, but a strong desire coupled with periodic conveniene.

For example, often I have a meeting/conference where I have to haul a huge work laptop for one specific purpose, but in down time I get a chance to catch up with office work. For these instances, I prefer not to have to carry a second laptop.

Plus, if I get this I do *not* plan to also buy a tablet, so I'll use it for those type of things--like on plane rides, keeping kids entertained, etc.

[Sigma_Orionis]

That is reasonable pumkinpi. Do keep this in mind though:

As a tablet, I am sure the low end models will be more than enough for what you want.

As general purpose desktop computers, the low end models are overpriced and under-performing machines. They will work now, but they'll most probably have problems handling new applications when they come out in a couple of years.

You are also paying a premium for using a Solid State Hard Disk.

[Sigma_Orionis]

Hey Pumpinpi:

I found this a review of 10 different Windows 8 tablets, some of them are hybrids like the SurfacePro 3

The 10 Best Windows Tablets

[pumpkinpi]

Hey Pumpinpi:

I found this a review of 10 different Windows 8 tablets, some of them are hybrids like the SurfacePro 3

The 10 Best Windows Tablets

I just bought option 2, 128GB / Intel i5 - 1.9GHz at best buy. I asked the same questions and got the same answers at two different stores, confirming it will suit my needs.

Merry Christmas to me! MrPi bought it (with the bonus of a $100 gift card) and then I spent $200 for additional accessories.

Yay!