Should I Stay or Should I Go?

[Sigma_Orionis]

Hey, the Pax Romana worked........ for a while

[Rommie]

So now Cameron said he is not going to invoke Article 50 until he leaves in October, leaving it to his successor to do so.

I can't tell if this is genius or dumb. On the one hand, uncertainty. On the other, who's going to take the job if you are going to be hated for doing it, but hated if you don't? Boris Johnson must be nervous...

I've also realized btw that few people in the USA truly grasp what a huge deal this is.

[geonuc]

Not sure what you mean by "So now ...". He stated during his resignation notice that he'd let his successor do the dirty deed with Article 50.

What makes you say that few Americans realize the gravity of this? My impression is plenty do, based partly on how people are comparing Brexit to electing Trump in terms of massive stupidity.

[geonuc]

A friend of mine posted something that lead me to this new Facebook page which gathers signs of anti-immigrant sentiment. People can be horrifying.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/6105888 ... nref=story

[SciFi Chick]

What makes you say that few Americans realize the gravity of this? My impression is plenty do, based partly on how people are comparing Brexit to electing Trump in terms of massive stupidity.

Well, there's the Texit movement that has sprung up. I'm also noticing that people I know with a more conservative bent, can't seem to understand that this is horrifying. They believe that it might tough in the short term but that Great Britain will be better off in the long term. Some believe that Brussels and Germany were calling all the shots and so they don't blame GB for leaving. I've seen a couple of threads blow up on my newsfeed due to Americans pissing off their English friends who don't think this is a good thing. So, I guess it depends on what you're reading as to the impression you get. But I wouldn't say few Americans realize the gravity of this. I'd say I'm surprised, however, that there are so many Americans who don't get the gravity of this. I probably shouldn't be though. After all, Trump was nominated.

[Rommie]

What makes you say that few Americans realize the gravity of this? My impression is plenty do, based partly on how people are comparing Brexit to electing Trump in terms of massive stupidity.

Well, there's the Texit movement that has sprung up. I'm also noticing that people I know with a more conservative bent, can't seem to understand that this is horrifying. They believe that it might tough in the short term but that Great Britain will be better off in the long term. Some believe that Brussels and Germany were calling all the shots and so they don't blame GB for leaving. I've seen a couple of threads blow up on my newsfeed due to Americans pissing off their English friends who don't think this is a good thing. So, I guess it depends on what you're reading as to the impression you get. But I wouldn't say few Americans realize the gravity of this. I'd say I'm surprised, however, that there are so many Americans who don't get the gravity of this. I probably shouldn't be though. After all, Trump was nominated.

Exactly this. A ton of people saying it'll be unstable for now but just the same in a few years, and what did Europe think letting in all those migrants anyway? (Except, um, the UK has its own immigration policy and has hardly taken in anyone- the ones they want to keep out are the Polish and Hungarians and other Eastern Europeans!)

[geonuc]

What makes you say that few Americans realize the gravity of this? My impression is plenty do, based partly on how people are comparing Brexit to electing Trump in terms of massive stupidity.

Well, there's the Texit movement that has sprung up. I'm also noticing that people I know with a more conservative bent, can't seem to understand that this is horrifying. They believe that it might tough in the short term but that Great Britain will be better off in the long term. Some believe that Brussels and Germany were calling all the shots and so they don't blame GB for leaving. I've seen a couple of threads blow up on my newsfeed due to Americans pissing off their English friends who don't think this is a good thing. So, I guess it depends on what you're reading as to the impression you get. But I wouldn't say few Americans realize the gravity of this. I'd say I'm surprised, however, that there are so many Americans who don't get the gravity of this. I probably shouldn't be though. After all, Trump was nominated.

Exactly this. A ton of people saying it'll be unstable for now but just the same in a few years, and what did Europe think letting in all those migrants anyway? (Except, um, the UK has its own immigration policy and has hardly taken in anyone- the ones they want to keep out are the Polish and Hungarians and other Eastern Europeans!)

OK, when you said you didn't think Americans understood what a huge deal this was, I took that to mean either positively or negatively. Things like Texit show that some people think it's a great thing and they want it for themselves. That's different than thinking it isn't a big deal.

Either way, I think plenty of Americans grasp the gravity of the situation. Not all and maybe not most, but plenty.

[Sigma_Orionis]

Looks like a good deal of people the UK might be having second thoughts about Brexit

this is interesting though

The referendum itself was advisory, rather than legally binding, and nothing was legally set in motion as a result of the vote.

Theoretically, the government could ignore the result, although doing so would presumably prompt an angry reaction from the 52% of Brits who voted to leave.
"The referendum doesn't itself trigger Brexit," said Kenneth Armstrong, professor of European law at the University of Cambridge. "It still requires the decision of a government."
Specifically, a Brexit requires the UK government to invoke Article 50 of the Treaty of Lisbon, the EU legislation governing a potential breakup.

In any case, the damage has been done, First of all, the UK Government ignoring the referendum places them in a very delicate position. And IF the next government tries to do a second referendum, and this one comes out that the people in the UK DON'T want to leave the EU, let's just say that there will be some pretty dry chuckles in Rome, Athens and probably Madrid, not to mention Berlin and Amsterdam

[vendic]

Lets just cut the crap and get down to the real nitty gritty of it.
When they found out that Trump liked the result, they all thought, oh fuck. What have we done.

[Sigma_Orionis]

If they had read their own news they would have known in advance

[vendic]

Illiterate heathens.

[Rommie]

Boris Johnson is out of running for PM, probably forever. Craziest bit of House of Cards type drama the world has seen in a long time!

My friends in the UK however say what's concerning isn't as much the British government falling apart (though of course that's pretty big), but how quickly casual racism has come up in public in the past week. Perfectly acceptable now to go up to a Polish barrista behind a counter, for example, and tell her to go back to where she came from, and another won't let his half-Asian teenage daughter ride the bus alone anymore because she'd likely face vitriol, even though she's British but doesn't "look" it.

That's all also likely a bit regional, but disturbing that it's happening at all I think. Also reminds me that we really can't let Trump be president in the USA, because beyond the candidate himself it would embolden similar people to say similar things and worse.

[SciFiFisher]

Boris Johnson is out of running for PM, probably forever. Craziest bit of House of Cards type drama the world has seen in a long time!

My friends in the UK however say what's concerning isn't as much the British government falling apart (though of course that's pretty big), but how quickly casual racism has come up in public in the past week. Perfectly acceptable now to go up to a Polish barrista behind a counter, for example, and tell her to go back to where she came from, and another won't let his half-Asian teenage daughter ride the bus alone anymore because she'd likely face vitriol, even though she's British but doesn't "look" it.

That's all also likely a bit regional, but disturbing that it's happening at all I think. Also reminds me that we really can't let Trump be president in the USA, because beyond the candidate himself it would embolden similar people to say similar things and worse.

At the end of the day a significant percentage of the human race is very tribal. For that percentage when times get rough it's very easy to circle the wagons and say "except for the 50 to 200 people in MY group everyone else is the ENEMY!" Mind you it doesn't excuse the behavior. It usually takes a fairly consistent effort by the rest of the group to keep it damped down. And when times get rough more people join the haters club. And of course, when people start joining a club there is a group think that starts to prevail... Partly explains how the Nazi Party was able to control most of Germany. By the time the people with any sense realized what was happening they were too frightened to stand up because it usually meant a death sentence. It's sort of like the scene in the Western Movie where the Sheriff is facing a lynch mob. They know they have him outnumbered and that he only has six bullets in his 6-Gun. But, the first 6 people in the front don't want to be the ones who take a bullet so the rest can get to the Sheriff.

[Swift]

Boris Johnson is out of running for PM, probably forever. Craziest bit of House of Cards type drama the world has seen in a long time!

My friends in the UK however say what's concerning isn't as much the British government falling apart (though of course that's pretty big), but how quickly casual racism has come up in public in the past week. Perfectly acceptable now to go up to a Polish barrista behind a counter, for example, and tell her to go back to where she came from, and another won't let his half-Asian teenage daughter ride the bus alone anymore because she'd likely face vitriol, even though she's British but doesn't "look" it.

That's all also likely a bit regional, but disturbing that it's happening at all I think. Also reminds me that we really can't let Trump be president in the USA, because beyond the candidate himself it would embolden similar people to say similar things and worse.

At the end of the day a significant percentage of the human race is very tribal. For that percentage when times get rough it's very easy to circle the wagons and say "except for the 50 to 200 people in MY group everyone else is the ENEMY!" Mind you it doesn't excuse the behavior. It usually takes a fairly consistent effort by the rest of the group to keep it damped down. And when times get rough more people join the haters club. And of course, when people start joining a club there is a group think that starts to prevail... Partly explains how the Nazi Party was able to control most of Germany. By the time the people with any sense realized what was happening they were too frightened to stand up because it usually meant a death sentence. It's sort of like the scene in the Western Movie where the Sheriff is facing a lynch mob. They know they have him outnumbered and that he only has six bullets in his 6-Gun. But, the first 6 people in the front don't want to be the ones who take a bullet so the rest can get to the Sheriff.

What Fisher said.

Like the old "we are only 3 meals away from anarchy" idea, we are always a very short distance from being haters.

[Stavro]

You have to wonder, when will Europe stop letting the German's ruin a good thing? It's been a rough 20th and 21st century so far.

http://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/ ... n-dreamers

[SciFiFisher]

You have to wonder, when will Europe stop letting the German's ruin a good thing? It's been a rough 20th and 21st century so far.

http://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/ ... n-dreamers

The Germans have been trying to dominate Europe for over 100 years. After several wars didn't work they are willing to settle for economic and political domination.

[Sigma_Orionis]

You have to wonder, when will Europe stop letting the German's ruin a good thing? It's been a rough 20th and 21st century so far.

http://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/ ... n-dreamers

The Germans have been trying to dominate Europe for over 100 years. After several wars didn't work they are willing to settle for economic and political domination.

And now that they DO dominate Europe, they don't know what to do with it.

[Cyborg Girl]

So the new British PM, Theresa May:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theresa_May

Actually seems fairly sane and decent. At least, if the above is to judge.

It's not too late to be hopeful, is it?

[Rommie]

Oh to be a fly on the wall when Cameron went to the Queen to resign. You know she told him off.

Theresa May basically has the one job no British politician currently wants, and one that one month ago no one would believe she'd now hold. Pretty insane to think about really. I wish her good luck, she's going to need it.

[Sigma_Orionis]

Boris Johnson was named Foreign Secretary, that's either a stroke of genius or absolutely stupid. Time will tell. Osborne got the boot. I guess Labor will be happy.

[grapes]

The solution to everything is to be the strongest most deadly country in the world and each country's duty is to that goal and should test it's systems with regular wars to make sure it's competitive.
There is no other way to world peace.

I think this could be a religion

[Sigma_Orionis]

My appreciation for John Kerry just went up one notch

Kerry poker-faced as press takes Johnson to task for 'outright lies'

I'm pretty sure the SOB was laughing his guts out on the inside while Johnson was getting a well deserved whopping.