Automatic reboots without notice, now for Linux too!

[Cyborg Girl]

Minor gripe, but nonetheless:

I installed Ubuntu 16.04 on my netbook.

This is what I ran into (and note, it applies to the server version too):

http://askubuntu.com/questions/764574/u ... om-reboots

It reboots during software upgrades whenever it thinks might be appropriate, without asking or notifying the user. Bam, instant reboot, all unsaved data is GONE. Oh, and then it gets stuck in an endless reboot cycle, because it fails to disable whichever switch is responsible.

Fine, I thought, I'll disable the unattended upgrades service. Problem solved...

And then when I update manually, it re-enables the damn thing. And reboots, before the updates actually complete. And gets stuck rebooting endlessly. Again.

Look - I know that Ubuntu is monetarily free. I know you get what you pay for - or, with software, at least half of what you pay for.

But this is just insane. This is a freaking long-term support release. Ubuntu LTS has been used on servers by every company I've ever worked for, people rely on it for mission critical stuff. When it goes down, so does a whole lot of money. And automatically rebooting during updates, without advance notice, by default... And not even managing that properly... And re-enabling it when I try to disable it... Is gloriously bonkers. Wide-eyed stupid. Designed for failure.

I don't know what world the people at Canonical are living in, where this kind of behavior is acceptable in a widely used OS. Even one that is free for end users. (Never mind corporate users who might be paying for a support contract.)

TL,DR version...

Don't smoke crack, folks. Especially if you're maintaining a major Linux distribution. Drugs are bad shit.

[Sigma_Orionis]

Dude, Maybe it's different in the US. BUT, AFAIK anyone who uses "Mission Critical" stuff in Linux uses Redhat or Redhat compatible distributions (like Oracle's, or Scientific Linux, or Centos or even Amazon's) . And there must be something about it. Because, again AFAIK Redhat is the only distribution that has clones

[SciFiFisher]

Note to self. Stick with Windows. It's almost stable after 30+ years.

[Sigma_Orionis]

Damned Smug Imperial Imperialist from the evil Imperial Imperialist Empire, you not only deserve Linux, but CANAIMA LINUX

[SciFiFisher]

Damned Smug Imperial Imperialist from the evil Imperial Imperialist Empire, you not only deserve Linux, but CANAIMA LINUX

You poor oppressed downtrodden socialist leftist communist anarchist don’t you know I am too regal to read links that are in Espanyol? Besides until you bow down to our superior democratic imperial world conquering regime toppling “we know better than you do” ways you have nothing of value to add to this conversation.

[Cyborg Girl]

@Sigma

Every organization I've worked for thus far has used Ubuntu LTS for critical servers, or for customers' critical servers. Exclusively, in most cases. The biggest exception I've seen was using Solaris for REALLY critical database servers; and that was only because it was a proprietary database, whose Linux support ranged from poor to nonexistent.

(And yes, I strongly prefer Debian Stable for server stuff. Give me an OS that just works, okay? But good luck floating that to The Management.)

(Also, amusing how my opinions on Debian have changed. I used to hate Stable. Then I discovered work, and realized that normal people don't have the time to babysit a bleeding-edge OS.)

@Fisher

I really wish I could say the same. I want to have a Windows development machine for certain projects, but Windows 7 (32-bit) has been a slow, broken PITA for me for the last 2-3 years. By the time I've got it working anywhere near how I want, I've spent several days wrestling with it and have basically lost all patience and interest.

I guess I should let it upgrade itself to Windows 10, and then make a backup image. But I feel like that time would be better spent learning more Linux stuff, like e.g. Salt Stack (which I'm experimenting with now).

Also, Windows backup images are HUGE, even in this age of cheap 500 GB hard disks. And MS Sysprep is a pain. And licenses don't transfer between computers. And Windows 10 is full of ad-driven bullshit. And, and, and...

EDIT:

Ah, Canaima Linux. I remember that one. Like a lot of stuff from Venezuela, it seems like a good idea in principle, but I have grave doubts about the implementation...

[Sigma_Orionis]

@Sigma

Every organization I've worked for thus far has used Ubuntu LTS for critical servers, or for customers' critical servers. Exclusively, in most cases. The biggest exception I've seen was using Solaris for REALLY critical database servers; and that was only because it was a proprietary database, whose Linux support ranged from poor to nonexistent.

(And yes, I strongly prefer Debian Stable for server stuff. Give me an OS that just works, okay? But good luck floating that to The Management.)

(Also, amusing how my opinions on Debian have changed. I used to hate Stable. Then I discovered work, and realized that normal people don't have the time to babysit a bleeding-edge OS.)

IMHO those people are nuts. there IS a reason on why Redhat based distributions have outdated packages. Debian by definition is experimental (and let's just not talk about Slackware or Gentoo huh? ), all the new stuff goes in it because it's supposed to be used by connoisseurs that DON'T do production systems. With all due respect, those people in the organizations you have worked so far, don't know what they're doing. It's that simple. I am sorry to be so blunt, but that's the way it is. I've been using Redhat based servers in production for over 6 years, in all that time the only system crashes I've had have been related to hardware failures or power outages.

BTW do you happen to know what was that super-duper proprietary RDBMS that had run on Solaris?

@Fisher

I really wish I could say the same. I want to have a Windows development machine for certain projects, but Windows 7 (32-bit) has been a slow, broken PITA for me for the last 2-3 years. By the time I've got it working anywhere near how I want, I've spent several days wrestling with it and have basically lost all patience and interest.

I guess I should let it upgrade itself to Windows 10, and then make a backup image. But I feel like that time would be better spent learning more Linux stuff, like e.g. Salt Stack (which I'm experimenting with now).

Also, Windows backup images are HUGE, even in this age of cheap 500 GB hard disks. And MS Sysprep is a pain. And licenses don't transfer between computers. And Windows 10 is full of ad-driven bullshit. And, and, and...

I just installed two new computers (I had bought them about a year ago, when computer gear was still affordable here in the land of red bananas) after I installed WIndows 7, got the offer to upgrade to WIndows 10. I upgraded mine and let my old man's computer on 7. So far it's not all that irritating (and no ads, probably because I uninstalled CandyCrush ) If all goes well I'll upgrade my old man's rig next week to Windows 10.

EDIT:

Ah, Canaima Linux. I remember that one. Like a lot of stuff from Venezuela, it seems like a good idea in principle, but I have grave doubts about the implementation...

I'll let you in on a dirty little secret. This country is by definition a bunch or fiefdoms with Feudal lords everywhere. "Killing the Messenger" is considered an acceptable policy. I'd say it crosses political boundaries but since everyone in this country claims to be at best center-left it's irrelevant. Suffice to say that the Private sector is better than in the public sector. But IMHO, not by much. When push comes to shove, everyone has "great-forward-thinking" ideas but has no idea on how to implement them. Implementation is "dirty", it requires what is considered "manual labor". So, who does it? the rabble that has neither the expertise nor the interest in doing it (and why should they? anyone with the capability to get things done is marginalized, so from that group, anyone who has the means to leave the country does so without hesitation). It's been the story of this country since probably the 18th Century.

Damned Smug Imperial Imperialist from the evil Imperial Imperialist Empire, you not only deserve Linux, but CANAIMA LINUX

You poor oppressed downtrodden socialist leftist communist anarchist don’t you know I am too regal to read links that are in Espanyol? Besides until you bow down to our superior democratic imperial world conquering regime toppling “we know better than you do” ways you have nothing of value to add to this conversation.

I'm shaking on ma boots gringo, come down here tell me that to my face (that way I can implement my latest escape plan ).

[SciFiFisher]

To be honest I think for the average user Windows 7 or 10 are probably the best solution. It's widely supported and MS does a fair job of pushing out updates. They also provide a decent support cycle for most of their previous builds. Windows Vista goes out of support in 2017. It was released in 2006 and replaced in 2009 by Windows 7. Yet, MS is providing updates for 8 mores years at no cost to those who still have it.

For those who just can't abide MS and all things Microshit There is Apple's OS family. It does have fewer challenges and is less of a target for malware and viruses. I won't go so far as to even pretend to worship it the way some do. I have started using it (within the last 18 months or so) and find that there are some challenges but for the most part after the initial learning curve it is acceptable. My only "complaint" is that it is still more expensive than other options.

If you have the time and the ability and you have a desire then by all means using any other OS and/or playing with code to your hearts content is fine and dandy. It is also to be admired and encouraged.

I don't have the time. At this stage in the game I probably don't have the desire. I will pretend I still have the ability.

[SciFiFisher]

Damned Smug Imperial Imperialist from the evil Imperial Imperialist Empire, you not only deserve Linux, but CANAIMA LINUX

You poor oppressed downtrodden socialist leftist communist anarchist don’t you know I am too regal to read links that are in Espanyol? Besides until you bow down to our superior democratic imperial world conquering regime toppling “we know better than you do” ways you have nothing of value to add to this conversation.

I'm shaking on ma boots gringo, come down here tell me that to my face (that way I can implement my latest escape plan ).

And this is one of those times when I really wished I had the ability and/or the wealth to make it happen.

[Sigma_Orionis]

To be honest I think for the average user Windows 7 or 10 are probably the best solution. It's widely supported and MS does a fair job of pushing out updates. They also provide a decent support cycle for most of their previous builds. Windows Vista goes out of support in 2017. It was released in 2006 and replaced in 2009 by Windows 7. Yet, MS is providing updates for 8 mores years at no cost to those who still have it.

For those who just can't abide MS and all things Microshit There is Apple's OS family. It does have fewer challenges and is less of a target for malware and viruses. I won't go so far as to even pretend to worship it the way some do. I have started using it (within the last 18 months or so) and find that there are some challenges but for the most part after the initial learning curve it is acceptable. My only "complaint" is that it is still more expensive than other options.

If you have the time and the ability and you have a desire then by all means using any other OS and/or playing with code to your hearts content is fine and dandy. It is also to be admired and encouraged.

I don't have the time. At this stage in the game I probably don't have the desire. I will pretend I still have the ability.

Believe it or not, I agree with you. what you call "Average Users" (we call them "End users") Will be more than happy with Windows 10 or 7 (8 sucks, that user interface is infuriating, 10's is less so ) I'm talking SERVERS, you know, those machines that are like children, best heard but never seen. the ones that have to run 24x7 no matter what. Good IT is like infrastructure. If it works well you forget it exists. Unfortunately, when it works well, you also forget you have to pay for it

And this is one of those times when I really wished I had the ability and/or the wealth to make it happen.

But it looks so easy when you watch NCIS!

[Cyborg Girl]

Okay, you know what, I'm actually a conclusion-jumping idiot. Sorry Canonical!

Turns out what happened was this:

1. Run apt-get update
2. apt-get runs for a while
3. Package installation work causes CPU temperature to spike
4. CPU temp reaches 88 C, thermal shutdown occurs.

I'd never seen CPU temperatures spike that quickly before though, on any machine. Seemed weird. So, I opened it up again...

It turns out that the aluminum parts of the case are used to draw heat from the CPU. One side of the CPU is in contact with the heatsink and fan assembly. The other side is in contact with an aluminum sheet under the keyboard, via a tiny little thermal pad that I had not noticed. Said thermal pad did not look to be in great shape.

So, I removed it. In its place, I put a clean penny with thermal paste on both sides. Idle CPU temperature is now about 20 C lower than it was, and there are no more temperature spikes.

Let's hear it for budget fixes and geek arrogance.

[Sigma_Orionis]

SO! I wasted a perfectly good rant that made me look like a respectable seasoned veteran whose words were worth their weight in Platinum for every syllable on a HARDWARE FAILURE? DAMN My reputation is shot!

Well, good to know yer machine is now working properly