Kennedy Space Center

[geonuc]

So, I visited KSC and ...

... it kinda sucked.

I'll elaborate later but the gist is:
- too expensive at $50/person ($46 for seniors) + tax + $10 parking
- bus tour (drive-by) of VAB and launch pads was seriously lacking for a number of reasons
- they didn't do well handling crowds, resulting in long waits in 90+ heat.
- it was a little like visiting a Roman Empire exhibit - seeing the artifacts of a once great thing but that isn't anymore (speaking of NASA's human exploration). That was actually a little depressing.

Saturn V (the one that was to be used for Apollo 18) is tres cool, as is the Atlantis shuttle.

[pumpkinpi]

So, I visited KSC and ...

... it kinda sucked.

I'll elaborate later but the gist is:
- too expensive at $50/person ($46 for seniors) + tax + $10 parking
- bus tour (drive-by) of VAB and launch pads was seriously lacking for a number of reasons
- they didn't do well handling crowds, resulting in long waits in 90+ heat.
- it was a little like visiting a Roman Empire exhibit - seeing the artifacts of a once great thing but that isn't anymore (speaking of NASA's human exploration). That was actually a little depressing.

Saturn V (the one that was to be used for Apollo 18) is tres cool, as is the Atlantis shuttle.

I went about 12 years ago and had a great time. Here is what I remember:

--My parents paid so I have no qualms about the cost. (But I agree--that ticket price is too high!)
--I know I enjoyed the bus tour, but I don't remember anything specific except when the tour guide pointed out an Eagle's nest. Maybe we got out? I'll have to go back and look at pictures.
--I remember a bit of a line but I went in February so the heat wasn't a problem.
--The shuttle program was still active. And I recall getting to stand near the end of the rocket boosters--but that might have been at the USSRC in Alabama. Wherever I saw them, they were frickin' huge!

Just an example of how two people can experience the same thing very differently! I understand your disappointment, though. I'm sorry you didn't like it!

On my visit, I also went to lunch with an astronaut. I can't remember who it was. It wasn't an exclusive lunch--there were at least 50 people, and he gave a talk. I think I got his autograph. What I remember quite often is that he said one of his items of advice to youngsters is to read a lot, read a lot of different things, and when you close the book think about what you just read for 10 minutes. Not that I do it--I just remember he said that! It's a good idea.

That experience recently changed--it's now Astronaut Encounter. Did you go to that?
http://sciss.se/news/id/sciss-upgrades- ... er-theater

[Rommie]

I went a few years ago around Christmastime. So not too hot, but yeah, spent like 45 minutes standing in line just to get on a bus. (I didn't realize until we got on the bus just how huge it is.)

We quickly realized the thing about KSC is the bus driver is completely luck of the draw, and really makes or breaks your experience. For our first driver, we had an old man who was hard to understand and was so boring my friend literally fell asleep on the bus. In Kennedy Space Center. But after seeing the Apollo 18 rocket, we were on the bus with an awesome guy with tons of enthusiasm who pointed out alligators and eagles nests and several great anecdotes. Like night and day!

I did really love the reveal of the space shuttle Atlantis though. They did such a good job of that, the entire group I was with broke out into applause when we saw it! It was also cool how it's displayed in such a way that you can see everything from multiple angles; I've been to the Air & Space Museum and there you only get a view from being on the level, which is nowhere near as good.

I also remember being surprised by the price btw. Considering we can make the Smithsonian, National Parks, etc free, I'm guessing it went to the other extreme end of privatization due to some overzealous politician.

[Thumper]

Well, that sucks, Geo. Was there other tour options. When we were in Houston a few years ago, Mrs. T surprised me with a visit to the Johnson Space center. They had regular bus tours, but she sprang for a VIP tour. It took most of the day, the 9 of us or so had our own van, driver, and personal guide who was a total frigging expert. We went just about everywhere: both Mission Controls (where one of the controllers came off console and our guide talked him into speaking with us for 10 minutes or so. Later that night in the hotel, watching a Space Shuttle special on NASA TV, I saw him again being interviewed about the Columbia disaster.) We also got to actually sit in the actual de commissioned original Mission Control, the one where Gene Kranz, Chris Kraft, Glynn Lunney, John Aaron, and so many others ruled. I sat in their chairs. Saw the other facilities, neutral buoyancy lab (giant swimming pool), vacuum chamber, mock ups, simulators and lots of long horn cattle! Then we got to see a full up Saturn V. About the most awesome thing I've ever seen.

So I know she paid alot, but it was worth it. I've long wanted to visit KSC, and was going to research if they had a similar tour. But I get what you mean about days gone by. We were lucky at Johnson that there was a shuttle mission in progress while we were there, the guys training in the pool were on the ISS 3 months later performing spacewalks. I stood on a balcony watching them work in the pool, then saw them on TV in orbit.

[geonuc]

That experience recently changed--it's now Astronaut Encounter. Did you go to that?
http://sciss.se/news/id/sciss-upgrades- ... er-theater

No, we didn't. We just did the basic admission - I was mainly interested in seeing the Apollo/Saturn V building and the shuttle.

The bus tour. In order to get to the Apollo/Saturn V building, you have to do the launch pad tour. While I do like the idea of touring the pads, I think they should have some option to just get out to the A/S V building directly. It takes quite a while to do that tour, which some people might not want to do for time management reasons.

- We had to wait a half hour or so to get on the bus, with the temperature above 90 and several of the overhead fans not operating. A bit uncomfortable.
- The bus driver kept talking about stuff that was in front of the bus, which most of us couldn't see. By the time the bus got to where we could see out the sides at whatever she was talking about, she was off talking about something else. She did this with the VAB, the big crawler, the launch pads, everything. She even did it with the big eagle's nest we drove past.
- Several screaming infants on the bus. The long wait in the heat probably didn't help the kids' mood.
- The video they play during about a third of the trip had too much NASA propaganda and not enough about whatever we were driving past.
- The driver went on and on about the stupid giant American flag painted on the VAB. I don't give a shit about a painted flag - it isn't NASA, it isn't NASA history. It's just blatant Americanism.
- We had another half hour standing in line in the heat to get back after visiting the A/S V building. During that time, it was obvious they weren't keeping up with the crowds as the line grew longer than the chained queuing area could handle. They just didn't have enough buses to accommodate the crowds and if I'm paying $50, I expect them to be prepared.

There were other issues I noticed that annoyed me. One example is the information signs next to some of the exhibits in the A/S V building, such as the 'instrument ring' (or whatever it's called). They have a graphic that points out and names a bunch of the instruments mounted on the ring. But when I went back and forth between the graphic and the real thing, I could see they didn't match up. The graphic was illustrating something different than what was behind it. I saw the same thing with the lunar excursion module stage exhibit - things didn't match. How hard is it to get a graphic that illustrates exactly what you have, especially if the whole point of the graphic is to illustrate detailed features? Again, for $50 I expect better.

As you probably know, I'm a big space fan and I lived through the Apollo days. I really expected to see something along the lines of what you get at any of the Smithsonian museums. What I got was a poorly executed version of a theme park. But with better rockets.

Charging people $10 to park when they have a huge lot and are charging $50 to get in is just extortion, much like you'd find at a theme park.

Semi-amusing facepalm moment: NASA, of course, was a pioneer in ergonomics and efficient use of space. They had to be to make the spacecraft thing work. Cramming three suited people into an Apollo capsule in such a way that they can get in and out and can manipulate the various instruments without continually saying 'pardon my reach' requires some planning and design. So, I use the mens restroom in this mecca of NASA glory. On entering, I see the urinals to the right, the sinks to the left. I head for the urinals only to bump into someone heading out after washing up. The trash can is on the right side of the door, requiring people entering and exiting to cross paths. I also see that there's plenty of room to the left of the door for the trash can, which would allow a circular traffic pattern. I notice these sorts of things. I probably shouldn't - I'd be a much happier person if I didn't see as much of the stupidity in the world as I do. I suspect most of y'all are the same.

[Thumper]

Well, that sounds like it kinda sucks. Sorry.

[geonuc]

Well, that sucks, Geo. Was there other tour options. When we were in Houston a few years ago, Mrs. T surprised me with a visit to the Johnson Space center. They had regular bus tours, but she sprang for a VIP tour. It took most of the day, the 9 of us or so had our own van, driver, and personal guide who was a total frigging expert. We went just about everywhere: both Mission Controls (where one of the controllers came off console and our guide talked him into speaking with us for 10 minutes or so. Later that night in the hotel, watching a Space Shuttle special on NASA TV, I saw him again being interviewed about the Columbia disaster.) We also got to actually sit in the actual de commissioned original Mission Control, the one where Gene Kranz, Chris Kraft, Glynn Lunney, John Aaron, and so many others ruled. I sat in their chairs. Saw the other facilities, neutral buoyancy lab (giant swimming pool), vacuum chamber, mock ups, simulators and lots of long horn cattle! Then we got to see a full up Saturn V. About the most awesome thing I've ever seen.

So I know she paid alot, but it was worth it. I've long wanted to visit KSC, and was going to research if they had a similar tour. But I get what you mean about days gone by. We were lucky at Johnson that there was a shuttle mission in progress while we were there, the guys training in the pool were on the ISS 3 months later performing spacewalks. I stood on a balcony watching them work in the pool, then saw them on TV in orbit.

Mind you, I'm not advising anyone not to go even though saying it 'kinda sucked' seems like I am. As a space enthusiast, you have to go. If I were to do it again, I'd spend more time and do one of the extra cost tours. And hope for a better bus driver.

I guess it was the 'expectation not met' thing. And the Roman Empire thing. I really am disappointed with this country's space program (except for the awesome robots!). Growing up in the 60's and 70's, how could I not expect that we'd have a lunar base and people on Mars by now? So to see this great Saturn V rocket from the 70s that was never used and still represents the pinnacle of our manned launch capability does kinda depress me.

[Rommie]

I guess it was the 'expectation not met' thing. And the Roman Empire thing. I really am disappointed with this country's space program (except for the awesome robots!). Growing up in the 60's and 70's, how could I not expect that we'd have a lunar base and people on Mars by now? So to see this great Saturn V rocket from the 70s that was never used and still represents the pinnacle of our manned launch capability does kinda depress me.

I had the exact same feeling when I last visited the Air & Space Museum in Washington DC. I guess it opened in the 1970s, and a lot of it hasn't even been updated since... so I can go around seeing all the exhibits that are in many cases exactly as I remember them as a kid in the 1990s. (Like even the one where they show you the planets in the Solar System hasn't been updated for the most part...). I mean sure, there's a Hubble mockup, but then there are some obvious things- for example, why is there nothing about the ISS, and instead a model of Skylab when even kids 20 years ago already didn't know what Skylab was?

So I got depressed because I remembered as a kid feeling that museum was more a showcase of amazing American technology and where we were going... but now it feels like it has more in common with the American History Museum across the Mall.

[SciFiFisher]

The tour guide can really make a difference. Someone who has an idea about how to deliver the information at the right time in an educational and entertaining way makes a big difference.

[Thumper]

I guess it was the 'expectation not met' thing. And the Roman Empire thing. I really am disappointed with this country's space program (except for the awesome robots!). Growing up in the 60's and 70's, how could I not expect that we'd have a lunar base and people on Mars by now? So to see this great Saturn V rocket from the 70s that was never used and still represents the pinnacle of our manned launch capability does kinda depress me.

Yeah, I think I feel the same way.

[Thumper]

The tour guide can really make a difference. Someone who has an idea about how to deliver the information at the right time in an educational and entertaining way makes a big difference.

I completely agree. The guide we had at Johnson was phenomenal. She knew everybody, she appeared to know everything. She was enthusiastic, and could present the information in an interesting fashion to a wide range of visitors. And she could also answer geeky questions from space program nerds...

[SciFi Chick]

The tour guide can really make a difference. Someone who has an idea about how to deliver the information at the right time in an educational and entertaining way makes a big difference.

I completely agree. The guide we had at Johnson was phenomenal. She knew everybody, she appeared to know everything. She was enthusiastic, and could present the information in an interesting fashion to a wide range of visitors. And she could also answer geeky questions from space program nerds...

That's exactly what it was like when vendic and I went. We went on our honeymoon. It was my gift to him, and I'm so glad it went well. I think it even made up for the food I forced him to eat all up and down the coast.

[SciFi Chick]

I guess it was the 'expectation not met' thing. And the Roman Empire thing. I really am disappointed with this country's space program (except for the awesome robots!). Growing up in the 60's and 70's, how could I not expect that we'd have a lunar base and people on Mars by now? So to see this great Saturn V rocket from the 70s that was never used and still represents the pinnacle of our manned launch capability does kinda depress me.

I had the exact same feeling when I last visited the Air & Space Museum in Washington DC. I guess it opened in the 1970s, and a lot of it hasn't even been updated since... so I can go around seeing all the exhibits that are in many cases exactly as I remember them as a kid in the 1990s. (Like even the one where they show you the planets in the Solar System hasn't been updated for the most part...). I mean sure, there's a Hubble mockup, but then there are some obvious things- for example, why is there nothing about the ISS, and instead a model of Skylab when even kids 20 years ago already didn't know what Skylab was?

So I got depressed because I remembered as a kid feeling that museum was more a showcase of amazing American technology and where we were going... but now it feels like it has more in common with the American History Museum across the Mall.

Makes me "glad" that I didn't pursue my ardent desire of becoming an astronaut.

[Rommie]

Hah, well I haven't withdrawn the application yet!

Which still has no updates on its status btw (including my letter writers being asked for letters- if they were I think one would have told me at least). I think no news is good news, plus there were 18k+ this round to get through.