Bunch of hypocritical creeps

[Swift]

Trump is finally learning (this may be a bit too optimistic of a word) that he is not untouchable. And that intimidation eventually stops working when people reach a certain point. His actions and behavior during this campaign have not really changed from his behavior and actions for the last 50(ish) years. He defrauds people. He lies. He bullies. He shouts people down. He uses the legal system as a bludgeon or a stalling tactic. He has all the morals of an alligator. I suppose it should not be a surprise that he is also a sexual predator.

What bothers me is that people think that his methods are admirable. They think he is a successful business man and person. And even worse people are so angry, frustrated, afraid, and fed up with how things are that they are willing to rationalize his behavior as being "ok". And vote for him.

Yes, yes, and yes. My only disagreement is your insult of alligators.

As far as the people who are voting for him, I'm having an increasing problem separating my feelings about Trump, from my feelings about people who are voting for him. My nephew-in-law, for one, appears to be a Trump supporter (he hasn't actually flat out said that, but he keeps defending him and parroting his attacks on Clinton). He isn't my favorite person on the planet (my n-i-l) but I've always been friendly with him. I'm struggling to continue to do that; I am truly puzzled by anyone who could vote for Trump, and wonder seriously about their sanity, morals, or intelligence.

[Swift]

@FIsher

What boggles me, is that it's not like Trump is even that different. Dennis Hastert, Newt Gingrich, Bill Clinton, and many others display that sense of entitlement... Trump just has much more of it.

"Huh, pouring half a gallon of gasoline on the fire makes it bigger and hotter. But maybe if I dump 50 gallons on it, that'll put it out!"

But the degree of it is very important. Look, anyone who thinks they should be president has to have an oversized ego; none of them are going to be like us mortals.

And Trumps sense of entitlement is almost the least of his problems. The man is a pig and a thief and a bully and a moron. He is mentally and probably physically abusive. He literally cheats people, lots of people, out of their money.

I'm no fan of Hastert or Gingrich, but they are not in same league as Trump.

[gethen]

I too have come to the conclusion that I am never going to understand the thought processes of some Trump supporters. My mother-in-law says she really dislikes Trump and wishes the GOP would drop him, but insists she will vote a straight Republican ticket regardless. Several people I know who are reasonably well educated and comfortably middle class have expressed overwhelming distaste for Trump's words and behavior, but intend to vote for him anyway. Even if HRC represents no better than the status quo, does that make her worse than a racist, misogynistic rabble rouser? Trump's positions on issues have changed so often and he is so grossly uninformed on many critical issues that I do not see how anyone can imagine that they know what he might do in the future. He doesn't know himself! One friend acknowledges all this but still insists he's "better than Hillary." I simply do not understand what appears to me to be willful ignorance.

[Cyborg Girl]

@Swift

Oh, agreed. I'm just boggled that anyone thinks heaping 100x more insanity on our problems will fix them. It's like almost half the electorate has decided to stop taking anything seriously at all.

@gethen

If white people irrationally hate Obama out of racism... Well, I'm betting male people irrationally hate Clinton out of sexism. Even the ones who think they're not that racist or sexist.

e.g. On a personal level, I'm thinking my own (tacit) sexism made me more open to anti-Clinton propaganda, even though I wanted to like her and support her from the start. It's been a bit of a wake-up call.

But it still staggers me that anyone would let that dislike bleed over into voting for an obvious monster like Trump.

[Swift]

But even if you despise Clinton, I don't know how anyone but a hater and a racist, sexist bigot can vote for Trump. Vote for Gary Johnson. Write-in "Snoopy" or "Jeb Bush" or your own name. Don't vote at all or vote for everything but President. At this point, voting for Trump is about the same as voting for Hitler or Kim Jong-un or that crazy guy in the Philippines, at least to me.

[SciFi Chick]

I have a friend of a friend on my Facebook page who is a Trump supporter. He is constantly pointing out Clinton's flaws, and when I point out that Trump has the same flaws (I'm not even going to try and defend Clinton with this guy), he just insists that he cannot handle the status quo and anything is better.

At best, he is illogical. Every time something is revealed about Trump's sexual harassment, he points out Bill Clinton's. Then, I point out Bill isn't running for President. Here's another example. He posted a meme of several female pop stars grabbing their own crotches, and it says something to the effect that they don't approve of Trump's words, and they're hypocrites. I explain that they are grabbing their own crotches, not someone else's, and they aren't running for President.

Then he posted a meme about how it's a special kind of stupid to be okay with "men" (transgendered females) going into the bathroom with their womenfolk, but get all upset with Trump, again, for some "words." I patiently point out that the real special kind of stupid is worrying about transgenders who have no record of assaulting women but Trump boasting about sexually assaulting women is okay. Many of his female friends like everything I say, but I just cannot get through to him.

Let's just say, I'm not ever going to become a lawyer, because I can't seem to change anyone's mind about anything, even with facts. *sigh*

[gethen]

...

Let's just say, I'm not ever going to become a lawyer, because I can't seem to change anyone's mind about anything, even with facts. *sigh*

Nope, especially not in this political climate. I'm convinced that many of the most adamant Trump supporters are people who see the world, especially the U.S., changing around them, and it scares them. They think that immigrants are going to change this country, and of course they will, as immigrants have always changed it. They are scared that gay, lesbians, transgenders, and their allies will disrupt the fabric of society. And again, they are partially right. This society has long been weighted in favor of certain groups and that is beginning to change. They think traditional Christian values will be lost. Again, those values are evolving in many areas and being influenced by other religions. Most of the things that frighten them are really happening, to some degree, and they are scared. I get that and have some sympathy for the people who are feeling that. But Donald Trump is not the answer. Voting for him is like seeing a house afire and thinking, "Hey, let me just take this can of gasoline in there and see if I can't put that fire out." He will make it worse. Much worse.

[Cyborg Girl]

@SFC

Okay, I hate to say this, but... This friend you mention sounds like he doesn't understand the concept of consent.

You might want to keep him at arm's length. Or more preferably, arm's length plus an axe-handle or a baseball bat, plus a few extra yards for good measure.

[SciFi Chick]

@SFC

Okay, I hate to say this, but... This friend you mention sounds like he doesn't understand the concept of consent.

You might want to keep him at arm's length. Or more preferably, arm's length plus an axe-handle or a baseball bat, plus a few extra yards for good measure.

Nah. Most of his friends are females, and his problem is he doesn't understand that what Trump had to say wasn't just words. I think if I could convince him that it shows Trump commits sexual assault, he's understand. In any case, you don't have to worry. I'll be meeting him in Florida, and I'll never be alone with him. If my husband and I don't like him, in person, that will be the end of that. If we do like him, it will still be a thing of both of us hanging out with him. You've met my husband, so I think you know I'll be safe.

[Cyborg Girl]

Yeah, I get ya. Although, I have to say, this

Nah. Most of his friends are females, and his problem is he doesn't understand that what Trump had to say wasn't just words.

makes him sound even more creepy to me if anything.

[SciFi Chick]

Yeah, I get ya. Although, I have to say, this

Nah. Most of his friends are females, and his problem is he doesn't understand that what Trump had to say wasn't just words.

makes him sound even more creepy to me if anything.

Sorry! I forgot to mention that most of his friends are females that like everything I post on his page. So he's surrounded by women that are telling him off, and it's actually only politics in which he's obtuse. He loves dogs. He is a Native American. We actually agree on everything but the Trump/Clinton thing, and the fact that he has so many women in his life that like everything I post makes me think he's misguided rather than scary.

[Rommie]

But even if you despise Clinton, I don't know how anyone but a hater and a racist, sexist bigot can vote for Trump. Vote for Gary Johnson. Write-in "Snoopy" or "Jeb Bush" or your own name. Don't vote at all or vote for everything but President. At this point, voting for Trump is about the same as voting for Hitler or Kim Jong-un or that crazy guy in the Philippines, at least to me.

I am pleased to report that a decent fraction of my conservative family members are taking the vote for Gary Johnson route, more than I was expecting. Not in the older generation as much, but I think they're really driven by the fears gethen eloquently outlined upstream. (Hi by the way! I feel like I don't see you as much lately!) In that sense though I think back to how four years ago when Mitt Romney lost people pointed out these traditional fears were no longer enough to win a national election demographically... and hope that still holds now.

The ones who depress me though in all this are those I know actively ignoring reality. You cannot argue with it, and it really saddens me when I wonder how we got to the point where this is so prevalent.

Btw, I was surprised at the source but I also thought this article did a great job outlining the rural vs urban divide on Trump. Not perfect as it doesn't tap into the huge anti-Clinton angle, but still solid.

[Sigma_Orionis]

I think it taps perfectly into the Anti-Clinton angle

[SciFi Chick]

Wow. That article was intense, and pretty much sums up my experience here in rural America. But because I was raised in a city, I never bought into Trump.

And the article doesn't even get into what we perceive as attractive. I, honestly think, if Trump looked like Robert Downey Jr., he would win by a landslide...

[Swift]

<snip>
... he just insists that he cannot handle the status quo and anything is better.

And that may be a big part of the disconnect, the attitude that "anything is better".

No, it isn't. "Anything" covers a whole lot of sins, and a lot of them are not better, and are in fact, much worse. Things can get a whole heck of lot worse in this country and in this world, and voting for Trump will lead to a lot of them.

Yes, I know I'm preaching to the choir here. But maybe SFC has hit upon a key thing among Trump supporters - "anything is better".

[SciFi Chick]

<snip>
... he just insists that he cannot handle the status quo and anything is better.

And that may be a big part of the disconnect, the attitude that "anything is better".

No, it isn't. "Anything" covers a whole lot of sins, and a lot of them are not better, and are in fact, much worse. Things can get a whole heck of lot worse in this country and in this world, and voting for Trump will lead to a lot of them.

Yes, I know I'm preaching to the choir here. But maybe SFC has hit upon a key thing among Trump supporters - "anything is better".

I think I have. I'm not going to deny how vocal and passionate I was for Sanders. I stated that I would vote for him whether he got the nomination or not, no matter what! Well, that was me clearly being emotional, because "no matter what" turned into Trump, which I couldn't even imagine at the time. But I got over my emotional outburst and realized what needs to be done. Why can't others?!!!

[SciFi Chick]

And, P.S., I'm strong enough to admit that Hillary Clinton has grown on me. Do I still think there might be skeletons in her closet? Yes. But I believe there are skeletons in every politician's closet. And I've finally found things that debunked some of what was said against her - something I couldn't seem to find during the primary - so that begs the question if everything said about her might not be true? But watching two debates - well, hell, just watching one debate between her and Trump, made me hate Trump with a fiery passion that requires no research, and I wonder that others don't have the same visceral reaction.

[code monkey]

I've no idea how large a factor the right-to-life vote is but I know of a number of people who are backing trump for that reason alone.

[Cyborg Girl]

@cm

That seems exceedingly bizarre to me. But, I gave up on pro-life stances actually making sense quite a while ago.