Undocumented "Citizens"

[SciFi Chick]

There is no such thing, no matter how much they contribute to the country. Becoming a citizen is what makes you a citizen, and I am utterly astonished that President Obama just told them they don't have to worry about being deported if they vote in this election. WTF?

[Rommie]

I'm sorry, but what are you talking about? Not in NY Times or BBC.

[SciFi Chick]

I know all of these links are from terribly biased sites, but unless they've figured out a fancy way to edit what he said, he said it's okay for illegals to vote:

Links

[SciFi Chick]

Never mind. I watched this before coffee. It's very out of context, and I'm hoping, somewhere in there, he said you can't vote if you aren't a citizen.

[SciFi Chick]

And I'm just leaving this here in case the subject picks up steam.

[SciFiFisher]

Yeah, as far as I know you have to register to vote. In order to register you have to prove that you are legally allowed to vote. i.e. valid proof of citizenship. Proof of residency in the location you plan to vote from. etc. Many states will register you to vote at the same time as when you renew your drivers license or get a new license. This is because the paperwork is the same for both.

You can not be an "undocumented citizen". Not if you want to vote. You can be an undocumented migrant. Which I personally object to. I think it's semantic sleight of hand intended to imply that the person is not breaking the law by being here illegally. I think we should call it what it is. Illegal Immigration. Which makes them an illegal immigrant. Changing the name doesn't make the crime go away.

[Rommie]

My suspicion is there was something said about provisional ballots used when someone's registration isn't in order to vote, and that got out of hand.

[SciFi Chick]

Well, at this point, I'm wondering more about the young lady conducting the interview, saying that her undocumented friends are afraid to vote. How, exactly, are they intending to vote? Break more laws?

[SciFiFisher]

Well, at this point, I'm wondering more about the young lady conducting the interview, saying that her undocumented friends are afraid to vote. How, exactly, are they intending to vote? Break more laws?

The only thing I can think of is that she is sadly mistaken about non-citizens being able to vote. OR they have forged papers but they are hesitant to use them to get a voter registration.

[vendic]

The interviewer is either seriously confused or deliberately being misleading. Citizenship isn't something that you can just claim.
You can claim to be President of the United States and it would be just as meaningless. Its a bit like asking if I as an undocumented President of the United States vetto'ed the latest Republican proposal, would the police come knocking on my door checking to see if I really was the President. It's nonsensical.

[Swift]

As soon as I checked your link and saw the "sources" I became highly suspicious. Here is what snopes has to say:

http://www.snopes.com/obama-encouraged-illegal-aliens-to-vote/

The claim originates from an interview with Obama published on 3 November 2016, in which millennial actress Gina Rodriguez asked the president about a number of issues facing young Latinos. Many of the outrage posts were written around a video in which the majority of the president's response was edited out to give the misleading impression that Obama was urging undocumented immigrants to vote illegally:

In the full interview, it's clear Obama is urging Latino citizens to vote in order to give voice to members of their community who are precluded from doing so by lack of citizenship, not urging non-citizens to vote illegally. Rodriguez's question seems to be addressing a fear that voting will result in scrutiny on one's family which could result in deportation of undocumented relatives:

RODRIGUEZ: Many of the millennials, Dreamers, undocumented citizens -- and I call them citizens because they contribute to this country -- are fearful of voting. So if I vote, will immigration know where I live? Will they come for my family and deport us?

OBAMA: Not true. And the reason is, first of all, when you vote, you are a citizen yourself. And there is not a situation where the voting rolls somehow are transferred over and people start investigating, et cetera. The sanctity of the vote is strictly confidential in terms of who you voted for. If you have a family member who maybe is undocumented, then you have an even greater reason to vote.

Now, I have to rant. I am sick of this fucking crap, and the Pubs and their stooges have been doing this for too fucking long. If you have legitimate disagreements about policy, positions, whatever, that's fine. If you really believe in trickle-down economics or that every American should have an air-to-ground missile, that's your business. But these lies and distortions have to stop. I want to find the person who created this and beat their head in with a pipe, for Treason and Crimes Against Humanity.

.... I feel marginally better.... Go about your day citizens.

[vendic]

The interviewers wording was very poor imho.

[SciFiFisher]

I know all of these links are from terribly biased sites, but unless they've figured out a fancy way to edit what he said, he said it's okay for illegals to vote:

Links

Apparently, they figured out a way to edit what he said.

[SciFiFisher]

RODRIGUEZ: Many of the millennials, Dreamers, undocumented citizens -- and I call them citizens because they contribute to this country -- are fearful of voting. So if I vote, will immigration know where I live? Will they come for my family and deport us?

People who are citizens have family members who are illegal immigrants. They fear voting because they think that voting will somehow alert immigration to come round up their family members. OK. she worded it poorly. I disagree with her claim of citizenship for people who are here illegally but I won't unilaterally claim they don't contribute something to the country.

She is either naïve or sincerely asking this question on behalf of people who fear that we are just a police state dressed up as a nice country so no one will suspect anything.

[SciFi Chick]

[
She is either naïve or sincerely asking this question on behalf of people who fear that we are just a police state dressed up as a nice country so no one will suspect anything.

And if all the legal citizens get Clinton into office, her fears will be unfounded, but if they don't vote, her fears might become a self-fulfilling prophesy.

[SciFiFisher]

[
She is either naïve or sincerely asking this question on behalf of people who fear that we are just a police state dressed up as a nice country so no one will suspect anything.

And if all the legal citizens get Clinton into office, her fears will be unfounded, but if they don't vote, her fears might become a self-fulfilling prophesy.

Luckily for me I look good wearing brown shirts and jack boots.

[SciFi Chick]

Now, I have to rant. I am sick of this fucking crap, and the Pubs and their stooges have been doing this for too fucking long. If you have legitimate disagreements about policy, positions, whatever, that's fine. If you really believe in trickle-down economics or that every American should have an air-to-ground missile, that's your business. But these lies and distortions have to stop. I want to find the person who created this and beat their head in with a pipe, for Treason and Crimes Against Humanity.

.... I feel marginally better.... Go about your day citizens.

This is exactly why I think we need more restrictions on free speech. The fact that FOX News won a lawsuit in which it was determined that lying was covered under free speech has really undermined our Democracy. Everyone talks about the slippery slope of restricting speech. Well, we're rolling down a fucking mountain by not restricting any speech.

[Swift]

I have to tell a weird coincidence about this video.

I hadn't heard anything about it till the thread here.

A couple hours after I posted here, I got an e-mail from a small model railroading company called Con-Cor. I might have purchased something from them over the years, or maybe I'm on their mailing list.

Anyway, the e-mail was from the owner of the company, but from the company e-mail address (I think it a small, maybe family owned business) and it was a huge anti-Obama, anti-Clinton rant, including a link to that video.

I sent back a very polite e-mail, telling him that the video was a deliberate distortion and even included a link to the snopes article. I said maybe you were lead astray, in which case you should send out an e-mail setting the record straight. But I also said that maybe this reflects your actual political beliefs. I have no problem with that, but since you have decided to use your business as a platform for your beliefs, beliefs that I adamantly disagree with, I'm going to have to stop doing business with your company.

I got back an automated "we got your e-mail" e-mail, but otherwise have heard nothing further from them.

[geonuc]

I don't understand businesses that do that. Well, I do - their owners/directors are either stupid or so incredibly wound up with politics that they can't see the effect on the business that comes from alienating half their potential clientele.

[SciFiFisher]

I don't understand businesses that do that. Well, I do - their owners/directors are either stupid or so incredibly wound up with politics that they can't see the effect on the business that comes from alienating half their potential clientele.

In the military we call it falling prey to the "self licking ice cream cone" syndrome. They honestly think their customers are of the same opinion. Or they can be persuaded to have their opinion. If push came to shove they would claim that they would rather stand up for principle and lose the business. The nice thing about small business owners is that they have not become as soulless as corporations who don't give a flying fig who is in office as long as they can be bought or compromised.

[code monkey]

Now, I have to rant. I am sick of this fucking crap, and the Pubs and their stooges have been doing this for too fucking long. If you have legitimate disagreements about policy, positions, whatever, that's fine. If you really believe in trickle-down economics or that every American should have an air-to-ground missile, that's your business. But these lies and distortions have to stop. I want to find the person who created this and beat their head in with a pipe, for Treason and Crimes Against Humanity.

.... I feel marginally better.... Go about your day citizens.

swift, swift, swift. you must calm down. you'll make yourself sick. cleansing breath. now another. feeling better? thank you, dr Lamaze. i'm truly shocked to see that someone of your sophistication and political awareness hasn't learned this basic principle - it's ok if you're a republican.