Well, it hit the fan on Egypt

[Sigma_Orionis]

Egyptian army suspends constitution

[geonuc]

Well, one thing your can say about the head general what be in charge that you can't say about most politicians: he keeps his promises. Or at least he did this one.

[SciFiFisher]

No body moves or democracy gets it.

I think Morsi seriously miscalculated how far he could go to implement an Islamic centric government. This could be just a small stumbling block on the way to Egyptian democracy or it could be the beginning of another autocratic government. So far the fact that the opposition leader was endorsing the deal and the fact that they are keeping a civilian in charge is a hopeful sign. I expect them to hedge a little bit about setting an exact date but an early announcement of new elections would be a very good sign.

[Sigma_Orionis]

According to this they implied that elections would be held asap. But no concrete date has been given.

And yes, you're right. A concrete announcement of early elections would give the Egyptian Military much credibility.

[Rommie]

Well so much for my plans of having things calm down enough while I'm in Europe so I can go diving on the Red Sea...

I mean people tell me it might be ok in the coastal resorts, but not a thing one risks even if as crazy as me.

[cid]

I have great difficulty comprehending a 'democratic Muslim' government. What with every mullah from sunrise to sunset issuing fatwas against everything up to and including Vegemite, how in the bloody blue blazes is this bunch going to come to some form of consent other than it's all the US's fault?

[Swift]

I have great difficulty comprehending a 'democratic Muslim' government. What with every mullah from sunrise to sunset issuing fatwas against everything up to and including Vegemite, how in the bloody blue blazes is this bunch going to come to some form of consent other than it's all the US's fault?

Frankly, it is as difficult as a democratic Christian government. I consider the politics of the fundamental Christians to be pretty similar to that of the fundamental Muslims. Islam is no more fundamentally undemocratic as Christianity.

But there are moderate, democratically elected Muslim governments (Malaysia, Indonesia, Turkey). I don't know if such is possible in Egypt.

[FZR1KG]

I have great difficulty comprehending a 'democratic Muslim' government. What with every mullah from sunrise to sunset issuing fatwas against everything up to and including Vegemite, how in the bloody blue blazes is this bunch going to come to some form of consent other than it's all the US's fault?

Frankly, it is as difficult as a democratic Christian government. I consider the politics of the fundamental Christians to be pretty similar to that of the fundamental Muslims. Islam is no more fundamentally undemocratic as Christianity.

But there are moderate, democratically elected Muslim governments (Malaysia, Indonesia, Turkey). I don't know if such is possible in Egypt.

You beat me to it.

Long live the Muslim and Jew killing Crusades of the loving Christian empire!

[geonuc]

Yeah, really. While I have no love for the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood, I'd say Christians have no standing to criticize.

[Sigma_Orionis]

Well, I do give The Christian Religion one merit, It took about seven hundred years to do it, but they finally more or less managed to get out of the way. Even if it has relapses like the God Squad in the US. Unfortnately, I don't think we can wait another 700 years for the rest of the Muslims to wise up and control their nutjobs.

Edited for clarity

[cid]

And now the ecclesiastical side of all things Egyptian chimes in...
I'm curious just whose side the Prophet is gonna take in all this...

[SciFiFisher]

For the most part the Christians have gotten away from the convert or die mentality that predominated from the fall of the Roman Empire up until the end of the dark ages. There are still some pretty ugly christians but they aren't cutting off peoples hands for stealing, stoning women for adultery, or killing people because they insult the prophet Jay E Sus any more.

And the bulk of christian atrocities were committed by non-democratic christian regimes. Until the 1700-1800's the bulk of the christian atrocities were committed while the ruling party was essentially fuedalism or a monarchy.

The Moslem Brotherhood in Eygpt has taken a somewhat less extreme approach but at the end of the day they still espose a position that is in favor of Sharia Law. In essence they want a return of the merciful beheadings and the days when it was ok to level a special tax on Christians and Jews.

[FZR1KG]

For the most part the Christians have gotten away from the convert or die mentality that predominated from the fall of the Roman Empire up until the end of the dark ages. There are still some pretty ugly christians but they aren't cutting off peoples hands for stealing, stoning women for adultery, or killing people because they insult the prophet Jay E Sus any more.

And the bulk of christian atrocities were committed by non-democratic christian regimes. Until the 1700-1800's the bulk of the christian atrocities were committed while the ruling party was essentially fuedalism or a monarchy.

The Moslem Brotherhood in Eygpt has taken a somewhat less extreme approach but at the end of the day they still espose a position that is in favor of Sharia Law. In essence they want a return of the merciful beheadings and the days when it was ok to level a special tax on Christians and Jews.

Christians are restrained because we prosecute them ASAP.
Though they still kill their own regularly by invocation of faith/prayer/exorcism instead of antibiotics.
They also kill others, e.g. doctors that perform abortions, bombings of medical facilities etc.

Give them any form of legitimacy in the government and we'd be in a state where they would kill people/cut hands off without a shadow of doubt and faster than a lesbian feminazi can cry sexism.

Don't believe me?
Let me know and I'll post God fearing loving Christians burning people alive, caught on video. Video means modern day Christians...DVD or Blueray means latter day Saints...errr Christians. LOL

The only thing God fearing, loving Christians are missing is the lack of repercussions for their actions.
Some don't care about that as it is so we get isolated cases even in the USA.

I'll point out, not all are like this but fuck there is a huge majority that would love the chance to burn witches, gays, abortion providers, condom manufacturers etc.

[Swift]

For the most part the Christians have gotten away from the convert or die mentality that predominated from the fall of the Roman Empire up until the end of the dark ages. There are still some pretty ugly christians but they aren't cutting off peoples hands for stealing, stoning women for adultery, or killing people because they insult the prophet Jay E Sus any more.

Except for the ones who blow up abortion clinics or murder OB-GYNs. Or advocate kicking every Muslim out of the US, including ones born here.

Not to mention the various flavors of Christians who spent decades blowing each other up in Northern Ireland.

[Sigma_Orionis]

Starting to get messy......

[Sigma_Orionis]

And now the the current PTB in Egypt are floating the idea of an election in February next year

[Sigma_Orionis]

And getting messier......

Egypt Muslim Brotherhood leader Mohammed Badie arrest ordered

No particular sympathy for the Muslim Brotherhood from me. However, if on top of persecuting them, the TimeTable proposed by the "provisional government" seems to have pissed everyone off (other than members of the Muslim Brotherhood that is), we could argue that the honeymon was over before it started.

The timetable for new elections, announced in a constitutional declaration by interim President Adly Mansour on Monday evening, laid out plans to set up a panel to amend the suspended constitution within 15 days.

The changes would then be put to a referendum - to be organised within four months - which would pave the way for parliamentary elections, possibly in early 2014.

Once the new parliament convenes, elections would be called to appoint a new president.

A spokesman for Mr Mansour said posts in the cabinet would be offered to the FJP, but senior party official Mohamed Kamal told the BBC: "We will never take part in any cabinet as long as Morsi is not back as a president."

The FJP's deputy chairman, Essam al-Erian, earlier said the constitutional declaration had been issued "by a man appointed by putschists". The text does make clear that Mr Mansour and his government draw their authority only from the commander of the armed forces, who deposed President Morsi.

The main liberal coalition, the National Salvation Front (NSF), expressed reservations about the decree, saying it was not consulted and that it "lacks significant clauses while others need change or removal".

The grassroots Tamarod protest movement, which organised the demonstrations that led to Mr Morsi's overthrow, said the decree gave too much power to Mr Mansour.

This is starting to look like our fun coup attempt in 2002.....

[FZR1KG]

The Muslim brotherhood, Is that like 70 male virgins?

[Sigma_Orionis]

This just keeps getting better and better....

Egypt declares national emergency

[Rommie]

I confess I'm not super surprised as the road to democracy is treacherous. If you read about the French Revolution back in the day a lot of it would sound the same. And it sounds like the Muslim Brotherhood was orchestrating bombings etc in the country, so good excuse to clear them out.

That said, I have a friend traveling to Dahab next month to go diving with some friends and her 12 year old, and while they say Red Sea resorts are still fine I think she's friggin' nuts.

[geonuc]

...I think she's friggin' nuts.

Yep.

[SciFiFisher]

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_t ... _6042.html
http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_t ... _6024.html

BLUF: the US warned all US citizens to depart Egypt in July. While the risk to your friend is microscopically lower if she is not a US citizen she is an idiot for risking her 12 year old child like that.

[Rommie]

She's British, where the warning only says "everywhere is super unsafe except for the coastal resorts" apparently, and she and the 12 year old have traveled around Egypt for several months post-revolution (including a month in Dahab where they're going). So not that she doesn't know how to travel etc, just one of those "looking for an exciting experience" types if that makes sense.

Yeah, I know some interesting people.