Organ Donating

[SciFi Chick]

Tell me again why I should?

My fear is not so irrational. Not in this bloody country.

[Swift]

One might argue that organ donation saved her life. If they weren't trying to keep her alive to recover organs, they might have just proceeded to embalm her. The problem was declaring her dead when she wasn't, not trying to recover her organs.

Yep, stuff happens. The odds are very low. But I'm not going to try to change your mind; if you don't want to be an organ donor, don't be. I just hope I can have one last act of trying to help someone out. As the bumper sticker says "Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them here".

[FZR1KG]

One might argue that organ donation saved her life. If they weren't trying to keep her alive to recover organs, they might have just proceeded to embalm her. The problem was declaring her dead when she wasn't, not trying to recover her organs.

Yep, stuff happens. The odds are very low. But I'm not going to try to change your mind; if you don't want to be an organ donor, don't be. I just hope I can have one last act of trying to help someone out. As the bumper sticker says "Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them here".

No way to know how often this happens because once the organs are removed the patient is dead.

What I find most disturbing is they gave her an anesthetic before attempting to remove her organs but claimed that she was dead...ok...do we give anesthesia to dead people regularly now or do we harvest living people regularly. Take your pick.

Remember too, medical negligence/mistakes kill more people in this country than car accidents do.
The figures are mind boggling, most people think they are low. Nope. They aren't.

[Thumper]

I suggest staying away from all doctors, hospitals, emts, paramedics, and don't take any medication just to be on the safe side.

[The Supreme Canuck]

do we give anesthesia to dead people regularly now

Funny thing: yes, actually. Even if there's brain death, the nervous system still responds to being cut into as if the person were alive. Anaesthetizing a donor prevents that pain response. They do it for two reasons: 1) it keeps the donor from squirming and making the procedure more difficult and 2) something is feeling pain - why not prevent it? That's the rationale, anyway.

But, for the record, I'm definitely on the same page as you and SFC. I like the idea of donating organs, but I don't trust the process. Besides, with any luck, by the time I'm dead organ donation will be obsolete.

[FZR1KG]

I suggest staying away from all doctors, hospitals, emts, paramedics, and don't take any medication just to be on the safe side.

Throwing the baby out with the bathwater isn't the logical thing to do, just as total faith in the medical profession isn't.
My point was that medical negligence and mistakes rank high up there with the biggest killers, some people just aren't aware of this fact.

e.g. It kills more than vehicle accidents and all drivers are cautious on the road, yet, when they go to a doctor they give complete trust to them thinking the risks are negligible.

My standard rule is the 5% Zee rule (patent pending). It's just based on statistics which is why it works almost universally.
95% of any profession is borderline competent, only 5% are competent.
Out of that 5% only 5% of them are exceptional in their field.
That's a 1 in 20 chance of getting a competent person in their field.
1 in 400 of getting an exceptional person.
Not really good odds.
You'll also note that it's person dependent, not institution dependent though you could technically apply the same rule to institutions and really get confused as to what it means.

It started as a joke many years ago but I've been observing people and professions and its not that far off.
You can dismiss it if you want but there's awesome power in this rule that explains many of lifes mysteries.
Ignore it at your own peril. mwahahahahahah...cough.

[Rommie]

I'm not sure if I'm 100% on board with that statement though FZ because it implies that the 5% of incompetent people in the population end up being doctors. Which isn't so true as it's pretty grueling to get into med school and then get through it all.

Not saying there are no incompetent doctors, as we all know- I had to teach pre-med students, and there are more than a few kids for whom if they got to that level and I had them I'd request another doctor.

I also for that matter can't think of 5% of my own field, astronomy/physics, as incompetent as frankly you wouldn't have a job if you were as it's so competitive. I've come across some awful human beings, sure, but they were the ones who doubly made up for it by being brilliant scientists. I think being a doctor is somewhat similar from what I hear from my friends on the med-school track: surgeons for example are usually pretty brilliant because you have to be to do it, but if you're not so good compared to other doctors you might go into something "easier" like pediatrics.

Just a few thoughts on that.

[Swift]

I'm not sure if I'm 100% on board with that statement though FZ because it implies that the 5% of incompetent people in the population end up being doctors. Which isn't so true as it's pretty grueling to get into med school and then get through it all.

Not saying there are no incompetent doctors, as we all know- I had to teach pre-med students, and there are more than a few kids for whom if they got to that level and I had them I'd request another doctor.

I'm sure I'm not 100% on board with that statement. It sounds like the 5% number is just made up, for any profession.

It also implies that a single doctor makes the decision in such a case. I highly suspect it is normally the call of several. So the odds are more like 5% x 5% x ....

But you guys in the majority, most people are not donor organs. And the odds are very high that there are people who will die or who will have much poorer qualities of life because of that.

I honestly don't understand most of the human race. There are so many people that will do highly dangerous things to try to save someone they don't know, like run into a burning building. But "risk" agreeing to be an organ donor is too risky. <shrug>

[Rommie]

I agree swift. I'm an organ donor too because frankly I don't see getting killed for my organs as a high risk thing. Just not on my list of things to worry about as a result, especially when it can do so much good.

But then some of you might recall that I am fairly serious about donating a kidney after I have kids ever since I read that doing so is rather risk-free but can change the lives of hundreds of people, so I'm really not normal in this.

[FZR1KG]

I'm not sure if I'm 100% on board with that statement though FZ because it implies that the 5% of incompetent people in the population end up being doctors. Which isn't so true as it's pretty grueling to get into med school and then get through it all.

Oh, you misunderstand. I kind of put it out fast.

What I mean is go into an profession, look at those who graduate, 95% are barely competent when compared against the other top 5%
e.g look at exam results, there are your average results and then there are the outstanding ones to the right of the curve.
Not that exam results indicate competence, its just an example.

In my profession for example, most engineers aren't good enough to do the "real" engineering. The tend to move off into management roles early.
The high fliers usually go into top end design work or cutting edge research.

In the physics field, many will find other jobs, some physics related, some not. The higher end ones usually go on to do research etc.
An example is a friend of mine who is a qualified physicist. He works in IT. Doesn't mean he was incompetent, just no jobs in physics in Oz.
Since the science moves fast and memories fade fast he would fall into the barely competent level.

For that matter, so would I as a design engineer. Its been over three years since I've done serious design work.
It matters.

What you get from your education when you graduate is just the beginning, for most its the end of learning.

[Swift]

I agree swift. I'm an organ donor too because frankly I don't see getting killed for my organs as a high risk thing. Just not on my list of things to worry about as a result, especially when it can do so much good.

But then some of you might recall that I am fairly serious about donating a kidney after I have kids ever since I read that doing so is rather risk-free but can change the lives of hundreds of people, so I'm really not normal in this.

I'm not sure I could go as far as donating a kidney to someone I didn't know, while I was still alive, though I would strongly consider it for someone I knew.

I have been on the bone marrow registry for years and would happily do that.

[Thumper]

...yet, when they go to a doctor they give complete trust to them thinking the risks are negligible.

And you know this "universal truth" how?

[FZR1KG]

...yet, when they go to a doctor they give complete trust to them thinking the risks are negligible.

And you know this "universal truth" how?

I never stated its a universal truth. Its a trend.
Most people just go to one doctor.
Getting second opinions is not that common compared to a single visitation for several reasons.

Count the number of times you've been to a doctor and the number of times you've gone for a second opinion to someone else.

[Thumper]

Bunches. Plus, I "don't give complete trust" nor do I assume risks are "negligible." Maybe I'm the only one. Maybe you're right it's a trend. Not sure if trend is the proper word in this case. I can't imagine there aren't others out there who:
A. Get a second opinion from another Dr.
B. Do some research on their own.
C. Consult with friends/family members/others who have gone through the same conditions.

In fact I can name several without even thinking about it: Loresinger and Ikyoto for starters.

[Loresinger]

amen to always having your ducks in a row (i.e. having as much knowledge as possible)

I don't care what they do with my parts - whatever is left over (as I have said before) is likely to settle as dust in my living room just to piss off the family

[cid]

I don't care what they do with my parts - whatever is left over is likely to settle as dust in my living room just to piss off the family

Oh, that line is classic -- consider it appropriated with credit.