Resistance Training

[Tarragon]

No, it's not about weight lifting, though some might say it's about pulling your own weight.

I heard a quote recently that made me think: "One doesn't rise to the occasion, but sinks to the level of their preparation."

There are other versions of this statement by the ancient Greek poet, Archilochus, but I like this one because it implies something different than: “We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training.” First, "expectation" assumes anticipation, which isn't always possible. Second, "training" seems limited to performance, whereas preparation can go well beyond performance to include pre-planning, supplies and logistics, communications networks, etc.

It made me realize something. America may have been relatively immune to a demagogic dictatorial president in the past because a large percentage of the population had been drafted into military training and war. They had a higher level of training and experience to fall back to. With the change in military recruiting to volunteer only, a large percentage of the population, possible the majority, do not have that level of training to fall back to.

I'm not sure how bad the situation in the US will get. And, each person has their own limit. But, does anyone here think current events might lead to the need for an actual resistance? If so, what sort of preparations do you suggest?

[Tarragon]

I know, I know. The first rule of the Resistance is, "You don't talk about the Resistance."

[geonuc]

The Resistance. If it comes to that, we're doomed. Americans suck at resistance.

But, yeah, it may come to that. Today we saw the majority party shut down dissent from a sitting Senator. That's bad. In my mind, if the Trump administration does anything to circumvent the authority of the courts, we're in trouble because that's the last bastion of hope.

We may need a military coup.

[Rommie]

It made me realize something. America may have been relatively immune to a demagogic dictatorial president in the past because a large percentage of the population had been drafted into military training and war. They had a higher level of training and experience to fall back to. With the change in military recruiting to volunteer only, a large percentage of the population, possible the majority, do not have that level of training to fall back to.

I don't get it. Why does military training equal training and experience you can fall back to to overthrow dictators? I can list plenty of countries that also have had this happen in recent decades (virtually all of them thanks to WWII) but don't have the same political issues the USA does.

[SciFiFisher]

The Resistance. If it comes to that, we're doomed. Americans suck at resistance.

But, yeah, it may come to that. Today we saw the majority party shut down dissent from a sitting Senator. That's bad. In my mind, if the Trump administration does anything to circumvent the authority of the courts, we're in trouble because that's the last bastion of hope.

We may need a military coup.

You forget about the example the South has set.

[vendic]

I don't get it. Why does military training equal training and experience you can fall back to to overthrow dictators? I can list plenty of countries that also have had this happen in recent decades (virtually all of them thanks to WWII) but don't have the same political issues the USA does.

Yep. All it takes is a moderately unified population willing to cross a line they didn't before.

[Tarragon]

It made me realize something. America may have been relatively immune to a demagogic dictatorial president in the past because a large percentage of the population had been drafted into military training and war. They had a higher level of training and experience to fall back to. With the change in military recruiting to volunteer only, a large percentage of the population, possible the majority, do not have that level of training to fall back to.

I don't get it. Why does military training equal training and experience you can fall back to to overthrow dictators? I can list plenty of countries that also have had this happen in recent decades (virtually all of them thanks to WWII) but don't have the same political issues the USA does.

I'm not sure I follow your question. Military training is useful for performing military actions, even guerilla action. The other thing is that a citizenry with military training can be a deterrent to a would-be dictator seeking power, if they conclude their attempt would be short-lived.

I deleted a paragraph where I said that shared sacrifice in wartime, from military experience on the front to working in factories to make weapons, can also produce a shared cultural touchstone, a meme, that may have helped bind the American people together. In recent wars, it's been fewer people doing more warfighting on more deployments than before. This is not only a higher burden in absolute terms, but it creates a wider relative gulf between those who served and those who haven't. I'm not sure if and how that larger relative gulf would affect the calculus.

[geonuc]

The Resistance. If it comes to that, we're doomed. Americans suck at resistance.

But, yeah, it may come to that. Today we saw the majority party shut down dissent from a sitting Senator. That's bad. In my mind, if the Trump administration does anything to circumvent the authority of the courts, we're in trouble because that's the last bastion of hope.

We may need a military coup.

You forget about the example the South has set.

Hey, according to bunch a good ol boys down here, it ain't over yet. The south will rise again!

[vendic]

Hey, according to bunch a good ol boys down here, it ain't over yet. The south will rise again!

lol
I actually think I've met some.

[SciFiFisher]

It made me realize something. America may have been relatively immune to a demagogic dictatorial president in the past because a large percentage of the population had been drafted into military training and war. They had a higher level of training and experience to fall back to. With the change in military recruiting to volunteer only, a large percentage of the population, possible the majority, do not have that level of training to fall back to.

I don't get it. Why does military training equal training and experience you can fall back to to overthrow dictators? I can list plenty of countries that also have had this happen in recent decades (virtually all of them thanks to WWII) but don't have the same political issues the USA does.

The theory is that military or former military, especially ones who have experienced combat, can help strengthen a resistance movement by passing on their skills to others in the movement. If there is a serious resistance movement they do figure out ways to learn the skill set they need. Having a pool of people who already possess some or all of the skills needed speeds up and shortens the learning curve. Having a military that is un-officially supportive of a resistance movement can also be a big plus. One of the ways you get that type of support is by having a large number of people who have or have had family and friends in the military.

This is one of the reasons why when you take over a country you *might* want to round up all the military former and current and give them jobs to do for the new regime. Or detain them and start screening them for possible insurgent tendencies. Or both.

[vendic]

Or tell them to start rounding up insurgents against our patriotic cause and, for protection of our free state because we need to drain the swamp of the enemy. You are with us or against us!

Don't forget, the military is traditionally Republican voting. So they might just be used against the people and will do so willingly. You just need to convince them that "some people" are the enemy. That's already happened with civil assets forfeiture. The people that are "meant" to protect and serve are now the ones robbing the citizens blind without due process. They are also being militarized. The citizens are already the enemy because in their minds they have justification for the greater good. Since a there is a sizable population of ex military going into police work, the concept that they will refuse to follow unconstitutional orders is very questionable.

The military is taught to follow orders. So they are all somewhat brain washed.

[gethen]

Resistance may amount to what people feel they are capable of. I am not capable of armed resistance. Put a gun in my hand and the one in the greatest danger will be me. But, so help me god, if we get to the point where that Cheetoh in the White House institutes a Muslim registry, I will register as a Muslim. Not because I believe in Allah or Jehovah or Odin or any other "god," but because I will do whatever I can to confuse the f$&kers who want to turn MY COUNTRY into their own private playground.

[SciFiFisher]

Or tell them to start rounding up insurgents against our patriotic cause and, for protection of our free state because we need to drain the swamp of the enemy. You are with us or against us!

Don't forget, the military is traditionally Republican voting. So they might just be used against the people and will do so willingly. You just need to convince them that "some people" are the enemy. That's already happened with civil assets forfeiture. The people that are "meant" to protect and serve are now the ones robbing the citizens blind without due process. They are also being militarized. The citizens are already the enemy because in their minds they have justification for the greater good. Since a there is a sizable population of ex military going into police work, the concept that they will refuse to follow unconstitutional orders is very questionable.

The military is taught to follow orders. So they are all somewhat brain washed.

We are not brainwashed. Lobotomized perhaps.

[Tarragon]

Resistance may amount to what people feel they are capable of. I am not capable of armed resistance. Put a gun in my hand and the one in the greatest danger will be me. But, so help me god, if we get to the point where that Cheetoh in the White House institutes a Muslim registry, I will register as a Muslim. Not because I believe in Allah or Jehovah or Odin or any other "god," but because I will do whatever I can to confuse the f$&kers who want to turn MY COUNTRY into their own private playground.

And that's an important point. A lot of people think of war and focus on those fighting on the front lines, but it takes a lot of people behind the line helping them. A resistance would need people who can handle communications and logistics more than anything else. An army runs on its stomach, but passing on information can win or lose a battle before it begins. And communications such as propaganda and diplomatic letters can reduce an enemies will to fight. Everyone can be used in a Resistance.

A fun introduction is Heinlein's The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress. I think it may be his best novel. I'm not sure how relevant it is today with new technology.

What other books, fiction or nonfiction, would anyone else recommend?

[Thumper]

I loved Red Planet as a kid.

[Tarragon]

It made me realize something. America may have been relatively immune to a demagogic dictatorial president in the past because a large percentage of the population had been drafted into military training and war. They had a higher level of training and experience to fall back to. With the change in military recruiting to volunteer only, a large percentage of the population, possible the majority, do not have that level of training to fall back to.

I don't get it. Why does military training equal training and experience you can fall back to to overthrow dictators? I can list plenty of countries that also have had this happen in recent decades (virtually all of them thanks to WWII) but don't have the same political issues the USA does.

Another thing I forgot to add, is that the experience can be useful even for non-military activities. Military service teaches people to react to danger, unfamiliar situations, obey hierarchy, transport and defend information, and how to sacrifice themselves for others etc. A resistance is often considered illegal and subject to prosecution, torture or worse. A shared experience can help people to trust one another, which is good but also bad, since most resistance groups are riddles with spies and suffer many betrayals.

For a historical perspective, one might want to read The Green Book, an IRA document.

One thing that stood out to me is the shared goal. It's not always enough to want to restore the status quo ante, since that's the situation that lead to the government that need to be resisted. A resistance may want to have a long term plan for what follows. Otherwise, a power vacuum will result, which might lead to something even worse.

[code monkey]

have you been reading the news stories about people calling on their congress people? demanding town hall meetings and showing up - in large numbers! - asking hard questions? and not accepting fluff as answers? let us hope that they will also show up at their polling places and vote the invertebrates out!

btw I've had the thought that the establishment republicans, who have no great love for the current president, will initiate the impeachment process. they're just biding their time and letting him rack up offense after offense.

[Cyborg Girl]

It's not always enough to want to restore the status quo ante, since that's the situation that lead to the government that need to be resisted.

THIS. It cannot be overstated how important this is.

We got here through a lot of factors. Poverty and economic oppression, entrenched corruption, mass disenfranchisement of black voters, corrosion of church/state separation, institutionalized sexism, and a whole lot more. At least some of this BS has to be overturned if the country is to move on.