Comey

[Rommie]

So I have to say, this has been a few months of insanity, but the firing today seems beyond insane. My first reaction is "whoa, this House of Cards season is getting damn near unrealistic!"

I just truly can't believe they didn't think people would find this insanely fishy.

[SciFiFisher]

They don't care. They think they are immune from the normal courtesies and laws. I think this was just another step in the Kleptocratic looting of the U.S. Even though I really wanted to see Comey get fired.

[Tarragon]

I saw Dershowitz on CNN and he made some claims that make sense. Comey has done several things that warranted firing over the last year. However, If Trump wanted to fire him, he should have done it right after the inauguration, though it still would have looked political with claims against Trump. With both political parties demanding investigations into the other party as well as Comey, there was never going to be a good time to fire him.

Still, the simplest explanation seems the most likely- Trump's runnin skeerd. Better to look guilty than be proven guilty.

[Rommie]

Was flipping through live streams and even Fox had someone saying it's weird to do it now with no warning, or to not wait for the results from the current ongoing investigation into Comey's behavior. When even they say it you know it's strange times we live in! (Then they had someone on to explain how everyone who's been fired is all part of draining the swamp, so don't worry, the moment didn't last long.)

[Tarragon]

It makes me think of stories of civil wars and dictatorial rises to power in other countries. Sometimes it starts with an attack on or takeover of the national police. Then the military gets taken over, or does the taking over in response. However, those countries didn't have the same division of power like in the US, such as between federal, state and local, or with the dozens of independent, armed, federal police agencies.

I don't know if Trump is incompetent or getting conflicting suggestions on how to president. Sometimes it feels like he's reading How to be a Dictator for Dummies but isn't adapting the playbook for the reality on the ground. Maybe every morning he looks in his gold-plated mirror and wonders "Why isn't it working? It worked for Suharto."

[geonuc]

What Fisher said.

[vendic]

I thought all you guys would have been happy that he was gone since what he did was fire worthy.

[Rommie]

I thought all you guys would have been happy that he was gone since what he did was fire worthy.

Yeah, but do you really think that's why he was fired?

The way I see it, there were two appropriate times to fire him because of his Clinton investigation shenanagins:

1) When Trump came into office

2) At the conclusion of the investigation currently being done into Comey's behavior

By doing it the way it was done now, and not even mentioning the real fireable offenses in the firing letter, instead talking about the number of times Trump was assured by Comey that he wasn't himself under investigation, during an investigation... that stinks to high heaven.

[vendic]

I thought all you guys would have been happy that he was gone since what he did was fire worthy.

Yeah, but do you really think that's why he was fired?

I really don't know why he was fired. I do know that I have little faith in politicians or the media these days.

The way I see it, there were two appropriate times to fire him because of his Clinton investigation shenanagins:

1) When Trump came into office

2) At the conclusion of the investigation currently being done into Comey's behavior

By doing it the way it was done now, and not even mentioning the real fireable offenses in the firing letter, instead talking about the number of times Trump was assured by Comey that he wasn't himself under investigation, during an investigation... that stinks to high heaven.

Here's the official reason's from Rod J Rosenstein. link

Rosenstein is apparently a highly respected guy by both parties. I doubt he was coerced to write a letter but who knows. The Democrats are already painting him as losing his great reputation because of this. I read that as, we don't like your letter, get ready to be burned politically. It's just smoke and mirrors to me. Politics as usual and I mean, that it's probably both sides waist deep in warm shit while pretending to be in the tropical waters of Tahiti.

[Rommie]

I thought all you guys would have been happy that he was gone since what he did was fire worthy.

Yeah, but do you really think that's why he was fired?

I really don't know why he was fired. I do know that I have little faith in politicians or the media these days.

The way I see it, there were two appropriate times to fire him because of his Clinton investigation shenanagins:

1) When Trump came into office

2) At the conclusion of the investigation currently being done into Comey's behavior

By doing it the way it was done now, and not even mentioning the real fireable offenses in the firing letter, instead talking about the number of times Trump was assured by Comey that he wasn't himself under investigation, during an investigation... that stinks to high heaven.

Here's the official reason's from Rod J Rosenstein. link

Rosenstein is apparently a highly respected guy by both parties. I doubt he was coerced to write a letter but who knows. The Democrats are already painting him as losing his great reputation because of this. I read that as, we don't like your letter, get ready to be burned politically. It's just smoke and mirrors to me. Politics as usual and I mean, that it's probably both sides waist deep in warm shit while pretending to be in the tropical waters of Tahiti.

So, the Wall Street Journal is reporting that Rosenstein has actually been threatening to quit over the depiction that he wanted Comey fired. He was just asked to write a memo detailing concerns he had about Comey, which he did. Note that the memo Rosenstein drafted does not recommend Comey should be fired, or any recommendations about what should be done with him.

I will argue that this goes seriously beyond just the "politics as usual" level, even by the latest standards of US politics.

[vendic]

He didn't flat out say fire him, he did say:

Although the President has the power to remove an FBI director, the decision should not be taken lightly. I agree with the nearly unanimous opinions of former Department officials. The way the Director handled the conclusion of the email investigation was wrong. As a result, the FBI is unlikely to regain public and congressional trust until it has a Director who understands the gravity of the mistakes and pledges never to repeat them. Having refused to admit his errors, the Director cannot be expected to implement the necessary corrective actions.

Bit like saying, "I'm not telling you to do this, but if you don't there will be a problem".
Apparently, if you do, there will be problems too. lol

[geonuc]

He should have been fired by Obama when he defied the Attorney General's directive to not talk about the Clinton investigation so close to the election, as the law states. He violated the order, violated the law.

If Trump thought as I do (fat chance), then he should have fired him on January 20.

Firing him now? Nope.

[vendic]

Why?

I mean, why on day one. Wouldn't people expect him to have quite a lot of stuff to do on that day?
Would Jan 21st be ok for example?
Maybe he was very distracted on the 20th. I know I get distracted. I'm pretty sure I would forget things if I was just made President. Maybe firing the FBI Director on day one would have made a huge media circus.

Then again, maybe he should investigate further, since becoming President allows you more access to information. How long would that take to do?
Sometimes things just fall in place, like hey, just hired a new guy, say Rod, what's your take on this Comey thing?

When does it go from fire him now to, yeah, he messed up badly but he got away with it so let it be?
Shouldn't the man the USA elected President, be able to set his own priorities and policies when making such decisions and shouldn't we expect him to make informed ones instead of knee jerk decisions?
I can't believe I just wrote that about Trump! Epic! lol

I'm not being an ass, I want to know. There are no absolutes on the date he should have been fired imho. Obama failed to fire him. Personally I agree with his decision. It would have been far worse if he did. The "Obama is covering shit up" mill would have fired up right away. Who needs it.
I don't blame Trump for firing some guy most people think should have been fired anyway. I think it's kind of strange really.
But I just don't know how to explain and don't understand the change in opinion based on time.

Is it because we believe that Comey was investigating Trump over the Russian thing?

[Rommie]

There are no absolutes on the date he should have been fired imho.

I disagree. It was inappropriate to fire Comey once it was clear that there was an investigation into the Trump administration itself.

Also, it's pretty easy to read the top news story on any page and find that Trump was only really gathering all this information in the past week or so, since Comey's testimony where he refused to tell the administration in advance what he was going to say. So no, your argument doesn't fly.

Finally I should point out with the shitty Muslim ban and all that in the first week, it's pretty clear this was not a priority for this administration that they agonized over for the past ~120 days or so. Instead, the facts show that back in October Trump was praising Comey for the actions he was now fired for in the Clinton investigation, and in January (a few days after the investigation) was still praising Comey. You can see a timeline here.

[vendic]

There are no absolutes on the date he should have been fired imho.

I disagree. It was inappropriate to fire Comey once it was clear that there was an investigation into the Trump administration itself.

What you're saying is that he shouldn't have been fired after that point. I was saying there is no absolute date that he should have been fired.
So I can agree with what you are saying.

[geonuc]

Why?

I mean, why on day one. Wouldn't people expect him to have quite a lot of stuff to do on that day?
Would Jan 21st be ok for example?

I said nothing about an 'absolute date'. By Jan 20, I meant when Trump became president and actually had the power to fire anyone. Jan 21, 22, 23 etc would have been fine. But the facts were clear - Comey violated the law in a big way and needed to be fired.

But, as Rommie said, once the Russia investigation started, firing the FBI director becomes very fishy.

[vendic]

Why?

I mean, why on day one. Wouldn't people expect him to have quite a lot of stuff to do on that day?
Would Jan 21st be ok for example?

I said nothing about an 'absolute date'. By Jan 20, I meant when Trump became president and actually had the power to fire anyone. Jan 21, 22, 23 etc would have been fine. But the facts were clear - Comey violated the law in a big way and needed to be fired.

But, as Rommie said, once the Russia investigation started, firing the FBI director becomes very fishy.

If Trump thought as I do (fat chance), then he should have fired him on January 20.

Firing him now? Nope.

That's why I asked. I didn't read it as "when he got the power to do so" or any date afterward because I didn't want to assume something that wasn't there. No biggie. I understand what you meant now and agree with both of you.

Personally I would have summed it up that it was wrong to fire him the moment it was apparent there was a conflict of interest.

[SciFiFisher]

I thought all you guys would have been happy that he was gone since what he did was fire worthy.

I am happy. I am also quite convinced that the reason he was fired wasn't for the reasons he should have been fired for. Comey was fired because he wouldn't reassure Mr Trump that he was not under investigation. He was fired because he wouldn't swear fealty to Trump. And I think that the final straw was the fact that Comey asked for more resources for the Russian Investigation. There is also the little fact that Trump and Co. kept asking the FBI to drop the Russian investigation because it was "Fake". And kept insisting that the FBI should investigate all those nasty leaks in the WH.

[Swift]

I am happy. I am also quite convinced that the reason he was fired wasn't for the reasons he should have been fired for. Comey was fired because he wouldn't reassure Mr Trump that he was not under investigation. He was fired because he wouldn't swear fealty to Trump. And I think that the final straw was the fact that Comey asked for more resources for the Russian Investigation. There is also the little fact that Trump and Co. kept asking the FBI to drop the Russian investigation because it was "Fake". And kept insisting that the FBI should investigate all those nasty leaks in the WH.

I'm neither happy nor sad, but I think SciFiFisher has the reasons correct and I think Trump's biggest reason was that Comey wouldn't swear fealty to Trump. Though Trump may not have liked the Russian investigation, nor the lack of investigations into leaks, I think the lack of "loyalty" was the big thing.

60 Minutes on Sunday replayed an interview with Comey from 2014. A lot of it focused on an incident back in 2004 when he was Assistant Attorney General, and was Acting Attorney General because Ashcroft was out for a serious illness. The White House was trying to get him to back a terrorism surveillance measure that Comey though was illegal and would not sign off on. The White House tried to go around him, he threatened to resign, and they eventually backed off.

I will say that the interview left me feeling better about Comey; that he looked upon the FBI as an independent agency, independent of political interference, and that he felt his decisions were guided by the law and the Constitution. He didn't feel loyalty to the White House, even technically they appointed him and he was under their chain of command (through the Dept. of Justice). Though I may disagree with some of his interpretations (for example, with some decisions from the Hillary Clinton e-mail investigation), and am now unconvinced they were driven by a desire to subvert the election.

[Rommie]

Couldn't watch today due to work, but did keep abreast on Twitter.

My reaction from that and the comments released yesterday is it's so rare to give future movie writers so little work. It sure reads like a movie script.

Also I think in normal circumstances for a normal person this would be enough to sink Trump, but the cynic in me thinks this won't be enough. I find it interesting though that not one senator questioned Comey's credibility as a witness.

[SciFi Chick]

I find it interesting though that not one senator questioned Comey's credibility as a witness.

I had issues with that as well. I also think it's interesting how much they're planning to cover in closed sessions. I also agree with the valid point that this man caved to pressure from Lynch to call the investigation into Clinton a "matter" while refusing to announce that Trump wasn't personally under investigation because he might one day be under investigation. That is lame. I also don't understand why he didn't tell Trump that his behavior was inappropriate. And I don't buy his excuse that he didn't go to anyone for assistance because it would somehow bias the troops.

That said, I think a lot of what he said was true. The whole request for loyalty while having dinner alone with him is downright disturbing. I don't know how much of Trump's behavior is incompetence vs. obstruction, but either way, we have lots of issues going on in this administration, and it's time to admit that "career" politician shouldn't be a dirty word. What we don't want are complacent, self-serving career politicians.

[Rommie]

And I don't buy his excuse that he didn't go to anyone for assistance because it would somehow bias the troops.

Sorry, but what was this about exactly? I never heard it in any of the clips I saw yesterday, so not sure what it's about. But then, I didn't watch live or anything, so I may well have missed something.

Personally for me, it is not a shocker that if your boss says sketchy things to you you don't call them out for being inappropriate. I found there was some truth in the parallels drawn in this editorial, for example, based on my experience of being in rooms alone with powerful people you often don't act in the way you normally would when that shit goes down, and hindsight is always 20/20.

As I said, I still think Comey is not exactly my favorite person ever or anything, but at the end of the day there were two people in the room, and one of them is lying, and I don't think anyone after listening to Comey after all the Trump shenanigans thinks he's more likely to be the liar. And let's remember, Nixon didn't go down for the break-in at Watergate, he went down for then trying to cover it up.

[SciFi Chick]

And I don't buy his excuse that he didn't go to anyone for assistance because it would somehow bias the troops.

Sorry, but what was this about exactly? I never heard it in any of the clips I saw yesterday, so not sure what it's about. But then, I didn't watch live or anything, so I may well have missed something.

Personally for me, it is not a shocker that if your boss says sketchy things to you you don't call them out for being inappropriate. I found there was some truth in the parallels drawn in this editorial, for example, based on my experience of being in rooms alone with powerful people you often don't act in the way you normally would when that shit goes down, and hindsight is always 20/20.

I did watch some of it live as they were playing it at the laundromat. One of the senators asked him why he didn't tell Trump he was being inappropriate. I agree with his answer there and your assessment. After that, he was asked why he didn't go to the AG. He said the AG was getting ready to recuse himself. Then he was asked why he didn't go to... long list. That's when he said he didn't want to make it public because it might bias the people conducting the investigation. But I've learned that the chain of command for the FBI is such that they can approach various representatives in Congress for assistance. Instead, he waited until he was fired and then he leaked his memos.

As I said, I still think Comey is not exactly my favorite person ever or anything, but at the end of the day there were two people in the room, and one of them is lying, and I don't think anyone after listening to Comey after all the Trump shenanigans thinks he's more likely to be the liar. And let's remember, Nixon didn't go down for the break-in at Watergate, he went down for then trying to cover it up.

I don't think Comey is lying either. But I don't trust his agenda or his timing on release of information. But I could very well be wrong. I'm simply going on my gut feeling after watching him speak for over an hour. He, like all of us, is a flawed human being and I think he's made some serious errors in judgment, but I definitely think he was fired because of his stance on Russia, and I think he's telling the truth about what happened in his meetings with Trump. He may be telling the truth on why he reacted the way he did, but, as Noah Trevor points out, too much of this shit is in closed session for us to really make a fair judgment either way.

[vendic]

This is Interesting. Particularly the bit at the end when he he admitted that out of all the leaks coming out of the WhiteHouse, everyone knew Trump himself wasn't under investigation, including members of Congress, but no one leaked that to the media. He also admitted that Trump stated that if any of his people were involved in the Russia thing it would be great to know.

[SciFi Chick]

This is Interesting. Particularly the bit at the end when he he admitted that out of all the leaks coming out of the WhiteHouse, everyone knew Trump himself wasn't under investigation, including members of Congress, but no one leaked that to the media. He also admitted that Trump stated that if any of his people were involved in the Russia thing it would be great to know.

Exactly! This is my issue. He was happy to lie and call the investigation into Hillary Clinton a "matter" rather than an investigation, but he acts like he's being pressured when asked to tell the media that Trump isn't under investigation. And he says it's because he doesn't want to have to correct it if Trump is ever under investigation, but the thing is, Clinton was already under investigation and he got caught out lying so he had to correct himself, but if Trump isn't currently under investigation, then it's not a lie, and all that would have happened is a new press release if Trump ever is under investigation. It's a very subtle thing Comey is doing and it's very disturbing.