1A

[vendic]

So, how about those crazy nutjobs creating violence at peacefull law abiding American citizens exercising their right to peaceful assembly in Charlottesville?

[Cyborg Girl]

Jesus Tapdancing Christ on a hoverboard, vendic, PLEASE tell me you're being sarcastic.

[vendic]

You really had to ask?

[SciFi Chick]

You really had to ask?

Of course he did. It's as though none of these people have actually met us in real life.

[Cyborg Girl]

Yes, I did. It honestly had gotten hard to tell; lately, frogs have been falling from the sky, rivers running red with blood, and normal decent folks becoming white nationalists. There's been swastikas in the Harvard subway stop, vandalism of Muslim and Jewish cemeteries, the Holocaust Memorial in Boston got smashed twice in the last couple months, and I and friends of mine have been harassed on the street more times than I can count off hand.

So, yeah, I hope you can understand where I'd be immediately skeptical of someone talking about Nazis and free speech in the same breath. These are some very weird times right now, and people are changing in ways one wouldn't normally dare to expect.

[Cyborg Girl]

BTW they came to Boston today, and folks here gave them welcome truly worthy of the Red Sox' home city... i.e. crude, loud, humiliating, and with massive turnout. Pleasantly surprising when you consider Boston's overall racism (and denial thereof).

Boston police OTOH conducted themselves abominably. I expected it (last time they were shaking hands with Fascist militiamen), but still... Jesus. Failing to intercede in fights, assaulting protesters and arresting people for obscure reasons, and deliberately locking out the press... Absolutely abominable.

[SciFiFisher]

Boston may be racist but they aren't having any truck with no darn out of town racists?

[SciFiFisher]

So, how about those crazy nutjobs creating violence at peacefull law abiding American citizens exercising their right to peaceful assembly in Charlottesville?

You were the kid with the stick every time the bear escaped weren't you?

[vendic]

I was the kid with the key to the cage.

[Cyborg Girl]

Fisher: that's pretty much exactly the deal actually. If you're gonna be racist in Boston, you'd BETTER be from around here, and preferably wearing a lot of Red Sox stuff.

Seriously though:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_bu ... d_violence

Note: the Wikipedia articles on this are REALLY sympathetic to the segregationists. But you can get the picture... Red Sox games are not the only thing that white Bostonians will riot over.

[Cyborg Girl]

Another nice example of white Bostonian racism:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/m ... 101187172/

When this happened a lot of papers ran comments from other Black players, indicating that this kind of shit happens very dependably at Fenway.

[SciFiFisher]

I was the kid with the key to the cage.

[SciFiFisher]

OASN: I read that the organizers of the free speech rally in Boston were really trying to make a broader appeal to the free speech crowd. In fact, they publically stated that they would not tolerate violence or Nazi supporters. Rueters has a good article about the protests and the rally.

"The point of this is to have political speech from across the spectrum, conservative, libertarian, centrist," said Chris Hood, an 18-year-old Boston resident who stood among a crowd of a few dozen people who planned to join the Free Speech rally. "This is not about Nazis. If there were Nazis here, I'd be protesting against them."

[SciFi Chick]

OASN: I read that the organizers of the free speech rally in Boston were really trying to make a broader appeal to the free speech crowd. In fact, they publically stated that they would not tolerate violence or Nazi supporters. Rueters has a good article about the protests and the rally.

"The point of this is to have political speech from across the spectrum, conservative, libertarian, centrist," said Chris Hood, an 18-year-old Boston resident who stood among a crowd of a few dozen people who planned to join the Free Speech rally. "This is not about Nazis. If there were Nazis here, I'd be protesting against them."

Yes. It's very unfortunate that free speech proponents are getting painted with the Nazi or white supremacist brush if they are right of center. As an example, Nancy Pelosi wanted to cancel a Patriot Prayer rally in San Francisco because she said it was organized by white supremacists. She called a guy named Joey Gibson a white supremacist.

His response? "I'm brown." That's a quote. The rest is paraphrasing: We have two black speakers, a female speaker, a transsexual speaker and no white speakers. If white supremacists show up, they won't be welcome.

[SciFi Chick]

Boston police OTOH conducted themselves abominably. I expected it (last time they were shaking hands with Fascist militiamen), but still... Jesus. Failing to intercede in fights, assaulting protesters and arresting people for obscure reasons, and deliberately locking out the press... Absolutely abominable.

I read that it was basically very peaceful and only 33 people out of thousands were arrested. Is that incorrect? And let's count our blessings that no one died this time.

[Cyborg Girl]

"No Nazis" is a lie. White supremacists these days don't actually call themselves white supremacists, or even white nationalists necessarily; that well is poisoned in the public eye, so they talk more obliquely. A lot of these guys believe in a white ethno-state but also hate skinhead Nazis and Klansmen, because those latter have a habit of being too obvious and making everyone involved look stupid.

Usually these guys are preppies or college bros now, not skinheads. Polo shirts, slacks, that kind of stuff. There was one guy there wearing a full suit. Also Internet fanpoodles from 4chan/8chan/Reddit - they're usually the pudgy ones wearing baseball gear. There are militia guys too, though, and yes, some of them turned up. There were more last time; this time I think a lot of them bailed when they noticed how badly outnumbered their crowd were. And there was supposed to be a KKK contingent showing up too thist time, but they apparently finked out.

Last time was worse though. There were lots of guys openly carrying Vinland Flags and Black Suns symbols and shit. They felt safer walking around being Nazis because the only counterprotesters were 200 or so Socialist Party folks and a few dozen more radical activists, and they knew the police wouldn't give them trouble - I got to see them shaking hands with police in fact.

Re "no violence": bullshit. They always say "no violence" in public; leaks from the platforms they use for planning this stuff, though, usually show plans to provoke violence and directly harm counterprotesters. BPD arrested one dude later who had smuggled in a handgun in an Uncle Sam hat, and that's just for starters. The "no violence" stuff is just PR for mass media consumption, it's not what they actually believe.

[Cyborg Girl]

Fisher: Patriot Prayer Group is less ostentatious but has been loosely connected with a bunch of white supremacist shit.

Examples of groups that turned up in Boston at the last Free Speech Rally BTW:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath_Keepers => Probably the least radical group ones
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proud_Boys => Violent assholes with a paramilitary branch, the head of which (Kyle Chapman aka "Based Stickman") is basically a sociopathic career criminal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tradition ... th_Network => Open white supremacist politics with a side of Antisemitism

Those have all been regulars at "Free Speech" events, and there are many others as well. Just because someone says it's about free speech, doesn't mean they aren't lying.

(And funny how nobody talks like free speech is an issue where Black Lives Matter is concerned.)

[Cyborg Girl]

And, SFC: yes, not many people were arrested, but those who were got pretty brutal treatment from police. And like I said, the police showed up with sirens and riot gear AFTER the protest on the Common had mostly dispersed. It really looked to me like they were waiting for an excuse to do some bullshit.

Also, they barred the press corps from the Free Speech Rally itself, for no clear reason.

Mainstream news has mostly been very favorable about their behavior. That's because it's mainstream news, and talking back to police is frowned upon. Personally, the absolute BEST I saw of police was standing around and failing to break up altercations, even ones that got physical. The people who ACTUALLY broke that shit up, without resorting to blows, were usually marshals from Black Lives Matter; or black bloc protesters from the much-reviled Antifa groups.

(Why? Because those parties, especially BLM, understand that they'll get blamed if fights break out. When white protesters start fights it's the Black protesters who usually get the blowback, because the media and public opinion really are that racist.)

Also to be clear, US news sources were *incredibly* favorable towards Boston police. When my mom called me up after the protest she didn't know anything about this crap, and was completely stunned by what I told her.

[SciFi Chick]

I'd love to see some actual evidence of how awesome BLM and Antifa are, because I can't find it and I have searched. Nope. I get stuff like this: no hate space

Clearly, these fuckers don't understand the meaning of words and stuff.

[SciFi Chick]

I've studied this rally now, and it turns out it was organized by The Freedom Trail Foundation. It was not organized by white supremacists, and as Fisher mentioned, they reject white supremacy.

Just because someone gets labeled a white supremacist doesn't mean they are. You need to provide some evidence GJ, not just declare that people who are on the right are all white supremacists. That's patently absurd.

[Cyborg Girl]

... what

http://www.thefreedomtrail.org/about-foundation/

That's... completely wrong and I don't even know how you arrived at that. The one in May, 3 months ago, involved a march that STARTED at the Freedom Trail Foundation building. OUTSIDE the building. Which is a historic landmark. The Freedom Trail Foundation guides tours of Boston historic stuff, they have literally nothing to do with this.

Just because someone gets labeled a white supremacist doesn't mean they are. You need to provide some evidence GJ, not just declare that people who are on the right are all white supremacists. That's patently absurd.

http://the-levant.com/wp-content/upload ... 60x330.jpg

The green one is a "Kekistan" flag, so Internet Nazis.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Pepe_the_Frog
http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/cult-of-kek

You see someone with one of those fucking frog avatars on Facebook, look at their profile page, I guarentee you there will be swastikas and Confederate flags and shit.

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_ ... -rally.jpg

Gee, look who those Kekistan folks run with.

https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/201 ... meme-magic

Ironic Nazis, sadly, are still Nazis.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/trending/pepe-th ... -1.3782035

Yeah, being called a Nazi doesn't make ones a Nazi. Accommodating and embracing Nazis (and neo-Confederates, and all that shit) at a "free speech" event, however, makes one a sympathizer and accomplice at best. Want to not be called a Nazi? THEN DON'T FUCKING STAND SIDE BY SIDE WITH NAZIS. It's that fucking simple.

[Cyborg Girl]

Also IMO a good thing to read - from the ACLU, which *does* defend Nazis' right to free speech (for better or worse).

https://www.aclu.org/blog/racial-justic ... c-property

This is re white supremacy as a part of mainstream culture, not just something KKK scumbags do.

[vendic]

Don't know about the other stuff but the Kekistan thing is a joke on how retarded people and their innate prejudice can be. Anyone that knows anything about Sargon of Akad and comes to the conclusion that he is a Nazi needs to check their echo chamber. Its playing a shit tune.
Having seen his content for months I completely stand by this position and declare anyone that disagrees with me is a Nazi without a sense of humour. So far worse than your standard Nazi. The definition of which is: you are a Nazi if I even think you disagree with me.

[SciFi Chick]

... what

http://www.thefreedomtrail.org/about-foundation/

That's... completely wrong and I don't even know how you arrived at that. The one in May, 3 months ago, involved a march that STARTED at the Freedom Trail Foundation building. OUTSIDE the building. Which is a historic landmark. The Freedom Trail Foundation guides tours of Boston historic stuff, they have literally nothing to do with this.

You're right. That is wrong. I tried to retrace my steps, but either the link was wrong in the news article I read this morning, and it's now been fixed or I hit something on my phone that took me somewhere else. My apologies.

However, the organizers disavow any connection to the people who organized the Charlottesville rally and maintain that they are a group of libertarians, conservatives, progressives and various other beliefs across the political spectrum. They are looking for dialogue not violence.

And vendic has covered the Kekistan thing. They are trolls, not Nazis. And none of them are white supremacists. They are advocates of free speech which really isn't the same thing.

[Cyborg Girl]

Re disavowal: yes. They will do that. Just like Trump talks about how awful white supremacy is and then about "hate from both sides". Bigots will not admit that they are bigots, they will deny association with buddies who are outed, they will cover their asses. That is how it works. They say different things on different days to maintain plausible deniability.

I'm trying not to lose my cool here, but SFC, seriously, this is not rocket science. Institutional racism is mainstream in this country, but Nazis are HATED. The only Nazis who actually admit to being Nazis are those who are stupid, overconfident, crazy, or some combination thereof.

Example:

Richard Spencer: "Nazi is a historical term" so he isn't one, he's for peaceful ethnic cleansing
http://www.rawstory.com/2017/01/neo-naz ... ical-term/

Also Richard Spencer: "Hail Trump! Hail victory!"
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... pi/508379/

"Hail victory" is the LITERAL ENGLISH TRANSLATION of "Seig heil!"

And yes, of course, he wears a Pepe the Frog pin.

Yes. These guys are trolls, and like offending people. They are also Nazis, or at least Nazi recruitment fodder, and like offending people on that basis too. This is not mutually exclusive. The original Nazi sympathizers had a habit of being "ironic" as cover for serious statements of belief and intent.

"Ironic Nazis Are Still Nazis - New Republic, Nov 25 2016"
https://newrepublic.com/article/139004/ ... till-nazis

And I'm pretty damn sure that I linked that very last item at least once before, but people didn't read it or otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion again.

Please, for the love of God, read it this time. And the SPLC one. People thought Nazis were a joke the first time, too.