Vegas

[vendic]

Well its not working well. Most of the time according to the gun shop we bought our rifle from its same day. Like the buyer is in the shop while it gets approved.
My approval took 1 day. The mil took 2. Neither of us had purchased a firearm in the USA before.
The reason we both got checked was because mine didn't get approved within a few minutes. So we tried the mil.
I completely forgot about this till now. So yeah, its pretty quick most of the time.

[Rommie]

I was thinking about this further, and I think a big part of the discussion that is very frustrating is this: while I recognize that guns can be used as tools, for hunting/farming/etc, I don't think this is the emphasis of guns and gun enthusiasm anymore. Instead, there is a huge focus on defense and protection- the emergence of Stand Your Ground laws, concealed carry, buy guns because Obama is going to come and take them, etc. I'm guessing this marketing decision has happened because most people don't hunt or have many other need for a gun as a tool, but everyone gets scared a little sometimes so it's comparatively easier to convince people the solution is to buy a gun (and America has frankly become a society that's much more afraid of everything in recent years).

Take this guy for an example, who legit thinks it's a reasonable thing to take an AR-15 to Wal-Mart because of the chance of a terrorist attack there. Reading this article made it pretty clear to me that this guy if anything probably needs some medical help with his paranoia, but more importantly I sure as fuck would not feel safe if I saw him on the street. And yet this shift in emphasis from "guns are tools" to "you can only protect you and yours with an AR-15" is an important one, because while I know FZ keeps showing up in these threads to remind us guns are tools to him, I genuinely do not think a large fraction of gun owners would agree with that mentality.

In other news, as I was writing this I got a news alert that the NRA is open to regulations on bump stocks, which I find kinda amazing and more than I was expecting. I guess we'll see what happens.

[Swift]

I was thinking about this further, and I think a big part of the discussion that is very frustrating is this: while I recognize that guns can be used as tools, for hunting/farming/etc, I don't think this is the emphasis of guns and gun enthusiasm anymore. Instead, there is a huge focus on defense and protection- the emergence of Stand Your Ground laws, concealed carry, buy guns because Obama is going to come and take them, etc. I'm guessing this marketing decision has happened because most people don't hunt or have many other need for a gun as a tool, but everyone gets scared a little sometimes so it's comparatively easier to convince people the solution is to buy a gun (and America has frankly become a society that's much more afraid of everything in recent years).

I think you are exactly correct. And that's the core of Trump's base - the fearful.

In other news, as I was writing this I got a news alert that the NRA is open to regulations on bump stocks, which I find kinda amazing and more than I was expecting. I guess we'll see what happens.

I'm getting this feeling that the NRA and the Pubs are going to toss that bone. Even their most insane people struggle to justify bump stocks, and they can say "OH Look at Us!!!! We did something this time about gun violence".

Its a brave move that will prevent exactly ZERO deaths over the next 10 years <sarcasm>.

Its like one Shoe Bomber and for the next decade or two we all have to take our shoes off. Instead of Security Theater we have Gun Violence Theater.

I assume the next time I check into a hotel my bags will be searched and I'll have to be probed.

[vendic]

And yet this shift in emphasis from "guns are tools" to "you can only protect you and yours with an AR-15" is an important one, because while I know FZ keeps showing up in these threads to remind us guns are tools to him, I genuinely do not think a large fraction of gun owners would agree with that mentality

No argument from me. That shift in is the reason I keep posting. Like a reminder to anyone with any reason left to them what firearms really are.
The nra has sold many on a false premise. They imho are the biggest cunts in America.
They are the reason I went from pro 2a to "you have got to be fucking insane to keep this narrative"

Sorry if I didn't make my position more clear.

[Thumper]

I was thinking about this further...

Farming?
Yes, stand your ground! Obama is still coming for your guns,
any second now,
wait for it...
Uuuhhh.

[vendic]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41519815

As predicted. Talks to ban bump stocks and a rush to buy them leaves manufacturers stocks depleted.
Next up, copy cat shootings.

[SciFiFisher]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41519815

As predicted. Talks to ban bump stocks and a rush to buy them leaves manufacturers stocks depleted.
Next up, copy cat shootings.

One small ray of light was that many of the retailers and producers of the bump stock have voluntarily suspended sales of them. How long that will last is anyone's guess.

[Rommie]

Yeah, after looking into it, I'm pretty sure the point about banning them is just that they can shout "look, we can be reasonable!" and then refuse to do anything further because people are so happy something goes through.

Re: guns are tools, I also guess the reason for the shift is if you do think guns are tools, well, tons of tools are regulated in their use. So you have to be more broad about why you need them.

Ugh. I just hate this.

Also, this may sound strange, but I'm actually glad that the motive for the guy is not clear at this stage. Because once they propose one, everyone will say "see, he's crazy! I'm not crazy so I don't need regulation so let's talk about something else!" pretty much. And frankly I never really liked the idea that these terrible people should basically be given a platform for their crazy ideas anyway.

[vendic]

https://youtu.be/bd2B6SjMh_w

I'm waiting for the day someone really goes hard core to make a point and kills several hundred or more.
When asked why, the reason would be that it takes extreme measures to create change and the only way to do it is kill so many that it would be impossible to ignore. In the end, it would save lives...

There are but jobs out there. Its just a question of time.

[Swift]

I'm waiting for the day someone really goes hard core to make a point and kills several hundred or more.
When asked why, the reason would be that it takes extreme measures to create change and the only way to do it is kill so many that it would be impossible to ignore. In the end, it would save lives...

I've actually had the thought that this might be the reason he did this.

But probably not. What little I've read about interpretations of his politics, if anything he leaned toward less government, not more.

[SciFiFisher]

Yeah, after looking into it, I'm pretty sure the point about banning them is just that they can shout "look, we can be reasonable!" and then refuse to do anything further because people are so happy something goes through.

Re: guns are tools, I also guess the reason for the shift is if you do think guns are tools, well, tons of tools are regulated in their use. So you have to be more broad about why you need them.

Ugh. I just hate this.

Also, this may sound strange, but I'm actually glad that the motive for the guy is not clear at this stage. Because once they propose one, everyone will say "see, he's crazy! I'm not crazy so I don't need regulation so let's talk about something else!" pretty much. And frankly I never really liked the idea that these terrible people should basically be given a platform for their crazy ideas anyway.

Don't worry they are still going to say "he was crazy. And that is why you shouldn't ban me from owning an AR-15, Machine Gun, Elephant Gun, or <insert weapon of choice here>"

[vendic]

I am same. Which is why I should own nukes.

[pumpkinpi]

For a while last night I thought I might have known someone who died in the shootings. He is someone I've known in my profession for 17 years, yet I only see him every few years at conference. He's a wonderful man and someone who has contributed greatly to our field.

Someone posted his passing on facebook. His obituary said he died yesterday in LV. Posts from earlier in the week on his own page were of someone asking their LV friends to check in, and someone replied to that post that he was in the hospital. Last I had known he lived in Pittsburgh.

I found out this morning that he had been living in LV for a while, and he died of other causes. It's somewhat strange to say that it was a relief to hear that. Coincidentally, there is a national conference in St. Louis for my profession, where literally hundreds of attendees know him. It's going to be very challenging to get through this week. But it would have been so devastating, traumatizing if he had been a shooting victim. Many people in the conference would have been in shambles. It's always sad when a friend dies, but the manner of death can cast a different pall on working through it.

[grapes]

I'm waiting for the day someone really goes hard core to make a point and kills several hundred or more.
When asked why, the reason would be that it takes extreme measures to create change and the only way to do it is kill so many that it would be impossible to ignore. In the end, it would save lives...

I've actually had the thought that this might be the reason he did this.

But probably not. What little I've read about interpretations of his politics, if anything he leaned toward less government, not more.

The premise behind Report from Iron Mountain

There are but jobs out there. Its just a question of time.

Tying back into Swift's assumption about probes when checking into hotels?

[vendic]

If they start checking hotel luggage before fixing problems with the gun culture, I will officially be done with this country. Time to sail away.