Shit Holes

[SciFiFisher]

Well, just when we thought Mr. Trump had outraged the world as much as he possibly could...

"Why are we having all these people from shithole countries come here?" Trump said, according to these people, referring to countries mentioned by the lawmakers.
Trump attacks protections for immigrants from 'shithole' countries in Oval Office meeting

He is, of course, already denying he said "Shitholes". The words don't matter. What matters is that Mr. Trump has made it very clear that he is a racist. Now, frankly, if he were just a run of the mill, garden variety, rich asshole, white supremacist I wouldn't give this story more than a passing glance.

BUT.... This is Mr. Trump. A man who is sitting in the presidents chair. He represents us to the world. And for at least 63 million of us he was the better choice. So, when people say "This is not who we are America!" I have some bad news for us. Yes, it is. When the world sees and hears this shit from this shit bag of a man this is who they see. They see America being openly racist and white supremacist. They see America being ugly. And they don't care if 200 million of us are appalled. We didn't stop this from happening. We didn't tell our racist uncle to shut the fuck up and leave our homes. We voted for anyone but... We didn't vote because our vote wouldn't count. We, in short, are now represented to the world by a racist, white supremacist, elitist, angry, white guy. As far as the rest of the world can tell that is who we are.

And for the 63 million voters who voted for Trump or anybody but (you know who!) they got exactly what they wanted. Every time Trump says something like this there are tens of millions of people saying "Hell Yeah!" and "Tell it like it is!". Because they beleive this crap. They secretly have been hoping for an openly racist president for a loooong time. They are proud to support this. They proudly put bumber stickers on thier cars that say in one form or another "White People Rule And You Brown People Better Not Forget It!". This is the America they want us to be. And they are proud of it.

[Thumper]

And that's the saddest part to me. There are people, lots of them who fully support everything this man says and does. (Even when he contradicts himself). I cannot fathom to understand that.

[grapes]

I haven't looked into this deeply (why would anyone want to), but the thing that came down past me said the Post article that claimed he said "shithole" only quoted people who were not at the meeting. Is this true? SMH

[SciFi Chick]

Care to show any actual evidence, rather than assumptions that there are lots and lots of people who secretly wanted a racist president. Because I'm going to be blunt. That sounds like paranoid, classist bullshit to me.

I don't mean to sound hostile but if we don't stop lumping people into this simplistic view of rural America along with utter denial that anyone's issues with Clinton might not be based in utter sexism, we aren't going to be able to find real solutions.

[Cyborg Girl]

*cough* Middle class white suburbanites went heavily for Trump. And that shouldn't surprise anyone. Rich white people tend to be racist, and that includes rich white liberals.

Seriously though, if you want your answers, look at this country's history. It's not about "rural America", it's that the United States has as long a history of simmering racial resentment as Germany has of antisemitism. And I am talking about the whole country - look up the Boston busing riots, we had white people here rioting about desegregation in the 70s and 80s. Even the self-proclaimed bastions of liberalism are racist as fuck.

[Rommie]

I haven't looked into this deeply (why would anyone want to), but the thing that came down past me said the Post article that claimed he said "shithole" only quoted people who were not at the meeting. Is this true? SMH

This article says the Democrat present has confirmed the language.

That said, I think people are getting distracted by the language. I have known plenty of immigrants who will tell you the country they came from is a shithole. But why the hell does that then imply that people from those countries need an extra justification for why those people deserve a chance to be Americans, but a white Norwegian does not? And the context was what standards are set for legal immigration, so Trump is basically saying some people are not deserving of the chance to ever be Americans, and your birthplace (and by extension, race) are prime reasons for determining that. Which is pretty despicable, though people are actively trying to spin it of course.

Also, I will agree with GJ, that in no point is Fisher equating the fact that there are a lot of racist people in America with rural areas. In fact, it's pretty damn clear that college educated white voters were a key demographic for Trump, without which he would not have won the electoral college.

Personally, my issue to grapple with in the past year has been the scope and extent of racism, particularly in my generation, as I think one naively assumes a lot of problems will die out over time as bigoted older people die out. Those Charlottesville Nazis are my generation, and if you read up on some of them they were in fact mainly average suburban upbringings, and often by parents who did not share their views and the guy only got interested in the alt right via the Internet. That is frankly pretty disturbing, and definitely points out that this problem is by no means limited to rural hicks in Mississippi whose dads were in the KKK or whatever.

[Cyborg Girl]

^^^ What she said, re: scope and extent of racism.

[grapes]

I haven't looked into this deeply (why would anyone want to), but the thing that came down past me said the Post article that claimed he said "shithole" only quoted people who were not at the meeting. Is this true? SMH

This article says the Democrat present has confirmed the language.

That said, I think people are getting distracted by the language.

Yes, that's true, but even that article you linked does not say he used the word "shithole."

In a tweet Friday, Trump seemed to deny using the term “shithole” to refer to some countries during a private White House meeting Thursday, but acknowledged he used “tough” language during the negotiations. Among Republicans, there were differing responses to the comments, but few of them outright condemned his remarks.

The lone Democrat present for the Oval Office encounter said that Trump’s denial was false and the president “said things that were hate-filled, vile and racist.”

Where did it come from?

ETA: OK, now that I've gone back and added the text, the Democrat says his denial was false.

[SciFiFisher]

I haven't looked into this deeply (why would anyone want to), but the thing that came down past me said the Post article that claimed he said "shithole" only quoted people who were not at the meeting. Is this true? SMH

The confirmation actually came from a Democrat who was there. It was further confirmed by a Republican who was there. Two or three other Republicans developed amnesia. A couple of them refused to comment. My main point though is not that he called Haiti or African countries "Shitholes". It is that he made a very clear statement that immigrants from those places were not "ideal immigrants" and that he preferred immigrants from countries that were more likely to have acceptable immigrants. The obvious point being that places with brown people produce inferior immigrants as compared to places with white people. That is about as blatant as it can get. It's pretty much racism in action.

Now, everyone is going to get into a spat about the words. Which are really irrelevant. Even if he had said "We really need to stop people from Haiti and Africa from coming here. They are such paradises I don't understand why people want to leave. Why can't we let more people from places like Norway come here?" It's pretty apparent that Mr. Trump has a bias. It's all well and good to have a bias. When you implement a policy that discriminates based on race because of your bias that is racism.

[SciFiFisher]

Care to show any actual evidence, rather than assumptions that there are lots and lots of people who secretly wanted a racist president. Because I'm going to be blunt. That sounds like paranoid, classist bullshit to me.

I don't mean to sound hostile but if we don't stop lumping people into this simplistic view of rural America along with utter denial that anyone's issues with Clinton might not be based in utter sexism, we aren't going to be able to find real solutions.

I am going with an empirical standard. If they voted for a racist it means that A: They were racist Or B: They were comfortable enough with supporting a racist that they might as well be racist. And given the number of them that cheer every time that Trump says shit like this I am sticking with my original estimate that they are in the tens of millions. If they cheer for a racist... See above.

Feel free to sound and feel as hostile as you like.

I have a lot of other stuff I was going to throw at you. But, frankly it is not my job to convince you of anything. I have come to a conclusion based on roughly the same information you have available to you. You have come to a different conclusion than I have. Awesome! Just because you are wrong doesn't mean I have to beat you about the head and shoulders until you capitulate.

I have decided this year that I would rather keep my friends and their good opinion more than I want to beat them into submission.

[grapes]

The Republican would be Lindsay Graham?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washin ... es-remark/

https://johnpavlovitz.com/2018/01/12/go ... d-bad-man/

I expect a tape recording will find its way out, and Trump will be screwed.

[geonuc]

The Republican would be Lindsay Graham?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washin ... es-remark/

https://johnpavlovitz.com/2018/01/12/go ... d-bad-man/

I expect a tape recording will find its way out, and Trump will be screwed.

You think? There was a recording of his pussy-grabbing admission and he subsequently was elected president.

[grapes]

Sure. Calling countries shitholes, white privilege, grabbing, that's all business as usual. Lying, though, that's another story. You can get impeached for lying about an affair.

[geonuc]

You can get impeached by a House controlled by the opposing party if you lie under oath during a deposition.

[grapes]

Everybody is Trump's opposing party, they just haven't figured out how to do it yet. And maybe they never will.

[Cyborg Girl]

Naw, modern Republicans are his party to the core. The difference between them and him is that he's stupid and doesn't know how to pretend civility.

There is a reason that they keep "strongly disapproving" of his actions and then go right on supporting him... The reason is that they don't actually disapprove.