Facebook

[geonuc]

I know how averse to YouTube many of you are. ...

I love YouTube. I won't hardly do a repair on anything before watching a YT video on how to do it. Plus, golf swing lessons.

[Thumper]

I know how averse to YouTube many of you are. ...

I love YouTube. I won't hardly do a repair on anything before watching a YT video on how to do it. Plus, golf swing lessons.

Ditto. Been using it lately for replacing key FOB batteries.

[SciFiFisher]

I have used Youtube for "how to" videos and even music videos. I have never really thought of it as a news channel or a way to get news.

[SciFi Chick]

I have used Youtube for "how to" videos and even music videos. I have never really thought of it as a news channel or a way to get news.

It's a great source for independent news. You just have to use good sense on who to listen to - kind of like mainstream news.

[pumpkinpi]

I have used Youtube for "how to" videos and even music videos. I have never really thought of it as a news channel or a way to get news.

It's a great source for independent news. You just have to use good sense on who to listen to - kind of like mainstream news.

We used to talk about high schoolers need courses on managing finances and being parents. One that's even more important: recognizing and seeking credible sources.

[Thumper]

So Zuckerberg has had to apologize for "misusing 87 million users' personal information." First what information could possibly have been mis used? The pictures of me doing a keg stand in college (which helped me not get my first good job)? A racist post (that also helped me not get my first job)? A steamy picture of me and pretty girl (which helped me end my first marraige)? What, are people posting their SSN's and credit card numbers on their Facebook pages? Second, when you signed up, you ageed that Facebook would use and sell your info to Anybody. I can't see how data could be mis used. Then I heard later this morning that Facebook's actions violated some 2011 consent decree that I'm not familiar with and have not yet researched.

I guess letters or other notifications are going out to users explaining that their data was "misused." I'm waiting to hear how mine was...

[SciFiFisher]

The "misuse" occurs in a variety of ways.

The first one has to do with the 2011 consent decree that FB signed in 2011. The FTC charged that Facebook lied to people about privacy settings. And that they lied or deceived people about what data third party apps could access from your profile. Facebook promised to fix things. What a lot of people seem to agree on is that FB really talked out of one side of their mouth and basically went right on doing the same things. Harvesting data and selling it to people.

It boils down to the fact that if you set your privacy settings to "Friends Only" it didn't really work. Third party apps were still being allowed to do things like go through your entire list of friends and harvest their data too. FB and third party folks were literally mining your data AND your friends data. For example, if Facebook asked to import all your contacts from your phone or your digital address book and you allowed them to do that so they could tell you which of your friends were on FB they would literally use your access to your friends to data mine them. Bottom line was that FB told people they were only collecting and using a limited set of data. And they lied.

They agreed to a settlement with the FTC. Part of that settlement includes the FTC being able to fine them several thousand dollars for each instance they violated the agreement. In theory if that fine is $20,000 per instance they are potentially facing $1,740,000,000,000 in fines if the FTC were to fine them for all 87 million violations.

The other big issue is a bit murkier. But, it boils down to a type of data mining and data analysis that is somewhat frightening. In essence they can predict what you will buy based on weird shit like what posts you like or share and by data mining your searches. For example, you use your browser to search for a part you need to fix the lawn mower. The next time you are on FB advertisements for lawn mower parts and related stuff starts showing up in your feed. And if all it were was smart marketing it would not be so bad. But... it seems that using data from things like FB and other sources they can literally get in some peoples heads and influence things likes like how they will vote. For example, one of the things that had an impact was the number of Bernie supporters who were targeted and convinced that the DNC conspired to cheat Bernie out of the nomination. Those voters were literally manipulated into voting for Trump, Stein, and "Anybody but Hilary". Facebook and other social media platforms were used to micro target that select group of people and they were constantly fed memes, shared "news", and examples of how the DNC and Hilary "conspired" to cheat Bernie out of the nomination. The more they liked advertisements and posts of that nature the more of those types of posts they saw on FB. But, it went farther than that. The data from FB was also used to target them when they went to other social media platforms. The tools FB used to be a better marketer were being used to spy on your activities in your browser and on other social media platforms. FB wasn't just stealing a little data from your profile it was and is actually spying on you even when you aren't on FB.

The people who figured out how to do this needed access to the type of data that FB has/had. They were able to build a predictive modeling tool that allowed them to literally target specific groups in ways that would not have been possible or affordable if they had not had access to the 87 million people that FB gave them access to. Depending on who you listen to FB did or did not know that these third party concerns were mining the data and using it for various purposes such as political campaigns. However, FB itself provided dedicated "marketing people" in Trumps campaign who actually helped the campaign create their marketing campaigns during the election cycle. It appears that FB actually understood the value of the "big data" mining they were able to do and that others might do from doing surveys and those fun little personality apps.

FB claims that they did not realize that Cambridge Analytica was actually using the data and that they never authorized them to do so. The data breech supposedly occurred because they gave access to an academic professor (with ties to Russia) who claimed it was only being used for an academic research project. FB then further claims they thought they had contained the issue because they asked Cambridge and the Professor to purge the data and stop using it. What is quite apparent is that Cambridge did not do this and they continued to build their database and use the database they had already collected from FB.

One of two things is quite apparent from this entire debacle. Mark Zuckerberg is extremely naïve and trusting. OR Mark Zuckerberg really thinks it's OK to commoditize FB users and sell their data to the highest bidder. My money is on the latter because he has made billions of dollars from FB. He has actually been quoted as saying that "privacy is dead".

[Thumper]

First thanks for thorough explanation.
I think it is the latter as well. Especially given Zuckerberg's quote about privacy is dead. I'm just astonished that people are now figuring this out. And when it happened (or was exposed, or punished) in 2011, to allow yourself to be duped again in 2016... that's what seems naive to me. I mean I heard it what, 10 years ago: "You are not buying a product or service in FB, YOU are the product being bought (and sold)"

That data mining/advertising targeting is pretty amazing even outside of FB. Any time I'm on yahoo, aol, google, or any other website with ads, I get showered with ads and offered of things I've recently searched for somewhere else, like Amazon.

[Cyborg Girl]

*gives Fisher a standing ovation*

I'll also note that Facebook ads probably circumvent most people's ad blockers, because they deliberately push ads and real content from similar looking URLs.

And that sponsored posts are a thing, and frankly quite sinister.

IDK, I need to put more effort into specific blocking vs Facebook ad methods. Unfortunately that put a LOT of effort into this crap; filter extensions I've used so far have either been too limited to be effective, or too complicated to set up to be useful.

[Sigma_Orionis]

There's a reason on why I mostly use Facebook to make snappy comments, and why it only has the bare minimum of info on me........

[geonuc]

It doesn't bother me as much as it does some. Yeah, Facebook lied, or Zuckerberg was played by smarter organizations. But it doesn't affect me. I don't post anything on Facebook that would get me in trouble if shared. I don't care if they use my browser history to target ads - I don't click on Facebook ads anyway. And it doesn't matter to me if the Russians bought my data to target me with anti-Hillary crap.

[Cyborg Girl]

I don't post anything on Facebook that would get me in trouble if shared.

Support for BLM? Support for legalizing/decriminalizing sex work? Support for undocumented immigrants? "Trouble" comes in more shapes and sizes than cops knocking on one's door (and we're not out of the woods yet, we're still heading deeper into them right now IMO).

Re targeted ads, think back on how many news headlines you can recall that you can't match with a specific source. Most of us are more suggestible than we like to think, and the limits of that suggestibility don't have to be as major as "not voting for Clinton" to have an affect on politics or public discourse. (Also this applies to TV news twice as much as to social media IMO.)

More to the point though, on both counts: just because it's not a problem for you, doesn't mean it's not a problem for other perfectly legitimate users (and whatever reasons they have for their use cases).

[SciFiFisher]

From day one I have worked to limit FB. For example, one of the questions they love to ask you is "Would you like to import all of your friends from your contacts in your email, phone, and etc". They tell you it's only so they can help suggest friends to connect with on FB. My answer has and always will be "Hell No!". Of course, that doesn't stop them mining from the list of my friends on FB.

I also very rarely do surveys or invite my friends to take them. And I never ever link other accounts I have with my social media accounts.

I don't do a total lock down on who can see my posts. But.... FB seems to have accomplished that with their latest anti-troll efforts. It's a lot harder to get trolls to my public comments on the ass hattery that is the current state of affairs in government.

[SciFiFisher]

Re targeted ads, think back on how many news headlines you can recall that you can't match with a specific source. Most of us are more suggestible than we like to think, and the limits of that suggestibility don't have to be as major as "not voting for Clinton" to have an affect on politics or public discourse. (Also this applies to TV news twice as much as to social media IMO.)

The ability to influence others with even small things is so pervasive that many organizations have stopped allowing even small gifts for employees from outside vendors. In the medical field it used to be quite common for drug reps to buy lunch for nurses and doctors. Or to bring in coffee cups, cool calculators, and other branded trinkets which they showered hospitals, clinics, and doctors offices with.

A number of studies showed that even having a stupid coffee cup with the name of a drug on it could influence nurses and doctors to recommend that drug more often than a competing cheaper medication. Frankly, I am convinced that the studies somehow were set up to create a confirmation bias. But, the effect is that medical sales people can't even buy me dinner anymore. And I really liked collecting the coffee cups.

[SciFiFisher]

First thanks for thorough explanation.
I think it is the latter as well. Especially given Zuckerberg's quote about privacy is dead. I'm just astonished that people are now figuring this out. And when it happened (or was exposed, or punished) in 2011, to allow yourself to be duped again in 2016... that's what seems naive to me. I mean I heard it what, 10 years ago: "You are not buying a product or service in FB, YOU are the product being bought (and sold)"

That data mining/advertising targeting is pretty amazing even outside of FB. Any time I'm on yahoo, aol, google, or any other website with ads, I get showered with ads and offered of things I've recently searched for somewhere else, like Amazon.

Right now a lot of the attention is focused on Facebook. But, the truth is that Google and just about anyone with the capability or access to the tools is using those tools to spy on you when you are online. The majority of the spying is sort of innocuous. They mostly just want to use the data to offer you contextual information. For example, I was looking for price information on the Nintendo Switch gaming console. I searched for Game Stop. The browser had a little prompt that said "I can show you the closest Game Stops to your location". It was able to do that because Apple in this case (and Google if I was using an android phone) has my permission to track my location. Why would I let them do that? Because if I don't the GPS app on the phone won't be functional. I really don't get freaked out about it. But, it would be nice if I didn't have to worry that any time the government wants to track me all they have to do is gain access to Apple's system.

Which leads to the reason some people are getting freaked out about all this data mining and tracking and spying. Your privacy is seriously compromised. Big data can be used to undermine a countries stability. People can be influenced. And the government or others can literally spy on you almost every moment of the day. Of course, the ability to do these things and the resources to do these things are two different things. The reality is that individuals are still pretty much lost in the signal. But, if the U.S. were to totally flip to a totalitarian government the tools are there to spy on people and suppress any resistance. Of course, the tools have been there for a really long time. It's just that with technology the tools are a bit more invasive than they used to be.

The more immediate threat is that these tools give criminals a lot more access and opportunity to commit crimes in ways that didn't used to be so high tech. It used to be that if they wanted to drain your bank account they had to actually steal your check book and write checks all over town before your checking account wound up on a "bad check" list at all the local stores. Now they can use technology to clone your debit or credit card and drain your account in under five minutes online. Or use the tools to spy on you and get your passwords and login information.

[Cyborg Girl]

@Fisher: Not having enough coffee mugs sucks, but corrupt mental health people plugging their fave meds sucks more. I'm happy to hear that gift stuff is better regulated now. (In part from personal experience with this stuff on the patient side.)

Re Facebook. Protecting one's self online is good, but you cannot do so completely. At this point IMO web surveillance is like being hacked, a matter of when rather than if. More so, really. If you use the Internet *at all*, then some company somewhere has probably built and sold profile of you.

Remember 1-pixel web bugs? Remember Doubleclick and friends? Remember when Web of Trust turned out to be literal spyware? Remember when (just this year!) it became legal for ISPs to sell data on what sites you visit?

Basically, y'all shouldn't start wagging your fingers yet about how other people should have been smarter re: personal info. The party is just barely getting started, especially now that Trump and co are deregulating everything they can touch.

[geonuc]

Maybe y'all have see this (if you haven't deleted Facebook, that is):

Type this in the help section:

How can I tell if my info was shared with Cambridge Analytica?

Facebook will supposedly tell you if you or any of your friends caused your data to be stolen by the Russkies to manipulate you into voting for Bernie Sanders instead of Hillary Clinton.

[SciFiFisher]

Maybe y'all have see this (if you haven't deleted Facebook, that is):

Type this in the help section:

How can I tell if my info was shared with Cambridge Analytica?

Facebook will supposedly tell you if you or any of your friends caused your data to be stolen by the Russkies to manipulate you into voting for Bernie Sanders instead of Hillary Clinton.

Seeing as they are now admitting that 87 million people were compromised I am going with... Everyone!

[geonuc]

Maybe y'all have see this (if you haven't deleted Facebook, that is):

Type this in the help section:

How can I tell if my info was shared with Cambridge Analytica?

Facebook will supposedly tell you if you or any of your friends caused your data to be stolen by the Russkies to manipulate you into voting for Bernie Sanders instead of Hillary Clinton.

Seeing as they are now admitting that 87 million people were compromised I am going with... Everyone!

FB claims neither me nor my friends accessed the app that Cambridge used to mine data.

[Thumper]

It kind of just locks up when I asked it the question...
I've had a spinning wheel for about 10 minutes.

[SciFiFisher]

It kind of just locks up when I asked it the question...
I've had a spinning wheel for about 10 minutes.

If you go to the bottom of the little drop down box/window and click on that it will give you a result. Mine was "You didn't do it but at least one of your friends did and your information may have been shared." Of course, they wouldn't tell me which friend so I could give them a hard time about it.

Of course, FB didn't make it easy to find the results.

[Thumper]

Was My Information Shared?
Based on our available records, neither you nor your friends logged into "This Is Your Digital Life."
As a result, it doesn't appear your Facebook information was shared with Cambridge Analytica by "This Is Your Digital Life."

[grapes]

It was sad/funny enough when personal relationships, marriages, friendships, employment opportunities and the like were ruined by Facebook. To now acknowledge that we are accidentally electing racist, sexist, lying, bafoons to the presidency is to me an order of magnitude worse.

In regard to sharing things and keeping up with friends, I do that. The whole world did that without Facebook at one time.

I think we did that without Facebook too.

There's a few posts out there, from twenty/thirty years ago, that *when I posted them* I knew that they were going to come back and bite me. I'm still waiting, and my plan is just to plead the long con, and laugh about it. Gees, I hope that works.

[Rommie]

Mine wasn't shared. Cewl, I knew I could trust y'all!

[SciFiFisher]

Of course, they are only tracking "Your Digital Life" the app as the primary way Cambridge Analytica may have received your information. There is no way to be sure that was the only data collection app they used.