Buckle Up Buttercup

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Tics-blood sucking insects

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Re: Buckle Up Buttercup

Postby SciFiFisher » Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:36 pm

squ1d wrote:
Rommie wrote:Well I think it's because this isn't a trial. This is basically a job interview. As such the standard is not the same.

But yes, it's pretty fucked up that the victim can say she wants an FBI investigation and they're like "eh, let's not."


That is some weird job interview, where uninvestigated criminal accusations are introduced from decades ago, judged in a media circus by people that don't have the correct job description, without the entire formal process in place to deal with such accusations, the chance for discovery, etc, etc. Isn't that why we have all those rules?

If it sounds like I'm defending Kavanah - I'm not - at least not intentionally. My personal opinion is that he's a scumbag and he did it. But where is the rule of law here? This is a ridiculous precedent to set (if it hasn't been set already).


This is just my two cents worth. It's a not a criminal proceeding because, as Rommie observed, it's really a job interview. One with a really odd interview process but none the less it is indeed a job interview. As such the "rule of law" and "due process" are not strictly enforced. And you get weird shit like Senators lamenting that it's just terrible what we are doing to that poor entitled victim Brett Kavanaugh.

But, part of what these proceedings are also intended to do is help establish whether the candidate for the highest judicial seat in the U.S. is a person who is worthy of that seat. We want him to have the moral character and the devotion to the law that will supersede personal or political agendas. We are asking him if he has the honor, morals, integrity, and the honesty to be the kind of judge we want on that bench.

Brett Kavanaugh, IMO, showed the world yesterday that he is not that man. What we saw was an angry, belligerent, paranoid, alcoholic like, self-entitled asshole ranting about how his life was destroyed by these allegations. The worst thing that will happen to him if he doesn't get the job is that he will go back to being a Federal judge on the appellate court. Hardly a life-destroying situation. Yet, he kept insisting that the allegations against him had destroyed his life and his families life. None of them will spend time in jail. It won't cause him to lose his current job. At worst a few people he knew might stop talking to him. Oh, and maybe a lawyer or two will ask to have a different judge when they are representing victims of sexual assault. Again, not what I would call life destroying events.

He repeatedly was in contempt of Congress and refused to answer simple yes or no questions with anything resembling a direct answer. He attacked one senator and asked her if she ever drank and blacked out as an answer to her asking him that question.

He was boorish, whiney, rude, evasive, and at times he just outright lied. Frankly, even if his judicial record showed that he was overwhelmingly liberal I would not consider him fit to sit on the Supreme Court.
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Re: Buckle Up Buttercup

Postby SciFi Chick » Fri Sep 28, 2018 1:55 pm

I don't know what to think about his actual guilt or innocence. I've been doing my YouTube thing again, and I've watched both sides (Republicans and Democrats) defend their turf, and it's one of those rare times where both sides make sense. There are valid arguments on both sides.

But I'm of the opinion, whether he's been set up or he is guilty, he would be doing the nation a favor if he just walked away now. It's what I would do. So, I can't respect the man even if he's innocent, because he wants this too much.

P.S. I feel the same way about Hillary Clinton and the Presidency.
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Re: Buckle Up Buttercup

Postby SciFi Chick » Fri Sep 28, 2018 1:58 pm

As an aside, one of the YouTube videos I watched was a clip from MSNBC, and one of the talking heads pointed out that he's getting a taste of what women go through all the time, and he doesn't like it. That made me laugh.
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Re: Buckle Up Buttercup

Postby SciFi Chick » Fri Sep 28, 2018 2:42 pm

Did y'all know Kavanaugh has been investigated by the FBI something like 8 times, in order to get his Top Secret status? What would be different about investigating him now? I mean, they're either incompetent, or he's not in the habit of committing sexual assault. Those seem like the only two options to me.
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Re: Buckle Up Buttercup

Postby geonuc » Fri Sep 28, 2018 3:18 pm

SciFi Chick wrote:Did y'all know Kavanaugh has been investigated by the FBI something like 8 times, in order to get his Top Secret status? What would be different about investigating him now? I mean, they're either incompetent, or he's not in the habit of committing sexual assault. Those seem like the only two options to me.


You seem to think that all FBI investigations are the same. They're not, and although I'm no expert, I doubt the investigations to grant TS clearance would be of the same character as one that would look into specific allegations of past criminal activity.
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Re: Buckle Up Buttercup

Postby SciFi Chick » Fri Sep 28, 2018 3:36 pm

geonuc wrote:
SciFi Chick wrote:Did y'all know Kavanaugh has been investigated by the FBI something like 8 times, in order to get his Top Secret status? What would be different about investigating him now? I mean, they're either incompetent, or he's not in the habit of committing sexual assault. Those seem like the only two options to me.


You seem to think that all FBI investigations are the same. They're not, and although I'm no expert, I doubt the investigations to grant TS clearance would be of the same character as one that would look into specific allegations of past criminal activity.


I don't think they're all the same, but I know that TS clearance involves talking to neighbors and lots of people who know you in order to establish character. I also know they don't always do a good job, but it's still relevant.

And I still say he should just walk away at this point.
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Re: Buckle Up Buttercup

Postby geonuc » Fri Sep 28, 2018 4:03 pm

SciFi Chick wrote:
geonuc wrote:
SciFi Chick wrote:Did y'all know Kavanaugh has been investigated by the FBI something like 8 times, in order to get his Top Secret status? What would be different about investigating him now? I mean, they're either incompetent, or he's not in the habit of committing sexual assault. Those seem like the only two options to me.


You seem to think that all FBI investigations are the same. They're not, and although I'm no expert, I doubt the investigations to grant TS clearance would be of the same character as one that would look into specific allegations of past criminal activity.


I don't think they're all the same, but I know that TS clearance involves talking to neighbors and lots of people who know you in order to establish character. I also know they don't always do a good job, but it's still relevant.

And I still say he should just walk away at this point.


You asked what would be different about investigating him now. I doubt prior TS investigations would have even looked into his early adult behavior beyond checking for criminal records. It's not a matter of incompetence. It's a matter of resources.
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Re: Buckle Up Buttercup

Postby SciFi Chick » Fri Sep 28, 2018 4:30 pm

geonuc wrote:
SciFi Chick wrote:
geonuc wrote:
SciFi Chick wrote:Did y'all know Kavanaugh has been investigated by the FBI something like 8 times, in order to get his Top Secret status? What would be different about investigating him now? I mean, they're either incompetent, or he's not in the habit of committing sexual assault. Those seem like the only two options to me.


You seem to think that all FBI investigations are the same. They're not, and although I'm no expert, I doubt the investigations to grant TS clearance would be of the same character as one that would look into specific allegations of past criminal activity.


I don't think they're all the same, but I know that TS clearance involves talking to neighbors and lots of people who know you in order to establish character. I also know they don't always do a good job, but it's still relevant.

And I still say he should just walk away at this point.


You asked what would be different about investigating him now. I doubt prior TS investigations would have even looked into his early adult behavior beyond checking for criminal records. It's not a matter of incompetence. It's a matter of resources.


Well then, they should get the police department I'm currently applying with to conduct background investigations from now on. Just sayin'. ;)
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Re: Buckle Up Buttercup

Postby pumpkinpi » Fri Sep 28, 2018 5:06 pm

I have not felt so disparaged since the morning I learned that Trump was elected, and I fell to the kitchen floor crying. I am crying again now. I have completely lost faith that the people we elect have any concern for what is best for our country. Only what advances their agenda.
Too bad ignorance isn't painful.
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Re: Buckle Up Buttercup

Postby geonuc » Fri Sep 28, 2018 5:21 pm

pumpkinpi wrote:I have not felt so disparaged since the morning I learned that Trump was elected, and I fell to the kitchen floor crying. I am crying again now. I have completely lost faith that the people we elect have any concern for what is best for our country. Only what advances their agenda.


This was always going to be the worst part of the Trump election - the Supreme Court. Beyond what you may think of his personal character and morals, Kavanaugh's votes on the court are what will leave a lasting, painful scar on our nation. Just as with Gorsuch, despite people holding him up to be a man of better character than Kavanaugh.

If the US Senate doesn't not change hands in November, we are totally fucked.
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Re: Buckle Up Buttercup

Postby SciFi Chick » Fri Sep 28, 2018 5:51 pm

pumpkinpi wrote:I have not felt so disparaged since the morning I learned that Trump was elected, and I fell to the kitchen floor crying. I am crying again now. I have completely lost faith that the people we elect have any concern for what is best for our country. Only what advances their agenda.


We tried to tell you. I lost faith awhile ago. There is a movement happening on the local level. That is literally the only hope. Rebuild the country from the ground up and let D.C. burn.
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Re: Buckle Up Buttercup

Postby pumpkinpi » Fri Sep 28, 2018 6:01 pm

SciFi Chick wrote:
pumpkinpi wrote:I have not felt so disparaged since the morning I learned that Trump was elected, and I fell to the kitchen floor crying. I am crying again now. I have completely lost faith that the people we elect have any concern for what is best for our country. Only what advances their agenda.


We tried to tell you. I lost faith awhile ago. There is a movement happening on the local level. That is literally the only hope. Rebuild the country from the ground up and let D.C. burn.

Yup. We need to start paying more attention to our local elections. Don't just go vote every 4 years, vote every year!
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Re: Buckle Up Buttercup

Postby SciFi Chick » Fri Sep 28, 2018 6:08 pm

pumpkinpi wrote:
SciFi Chick wrote:
pumpkinpi wrote:I have not felt so disparaged since the morning I learned that Trump was elected, and I fell to the kitchen floor crying. I am crying again now. I have completely lost faith that the people we elect have any concern for what is best for our country. Only what advances their agenda.


We tried to tell you. I lost faith awhile ago. There is a movement happening on the local level. That is literally the only hope. Rebuild the country from the ground up and let D.C. burn.

Yup. We need to start paying more attention to our local elections. Don't just go vote every 4 years, vote every year!


Exactly! And now that we have a place to live again, I'll actually get a chance to register to vote for this election. Not that I think it makes a difference, but I'll do it anyway. LOL.
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Re: Buckle Up Buttercup

Postby squ1d » Fri Sep 28, 2018 6:15 pm

This is just my two cents worth. It's a not a criminal proceeding because, as Rommie observed, it's really a job interview. One with a really odd interview process but none the less it is indeed a job interview. As such the "rule of law" and "due process" are not strictly enforced. And you get weird shit like Senators lamenting that it's just terrible what we are doing to that poor entitled victim Brett Kavanaugh.

But, part of what these proceedings are also intended to do is help establish whether the candidate for the highest judicial seat in the U.S. is a person who is worthy of that seat. We want him to have the moral character and the devotion to the law that will supersede personal or political agendas. We are asking him if he has the honor, morals, integrity, and the honesty to be the kind of judge we want on that bench.

Brett Kavanaugh, IMO, showed the world yesterday that he is not that man. What we saw was an angry, belligerent, paranoid, alcoholic like, self-entitled asshole ranting about how his life was destroyed by these allegations. The worst thing that will happen to him if he doesn't get the job is that he will go back to being a Federal judge on the appellate court. Hardly a life-destroying situation. Yet, he kept insisting that the allegations against him had destroyed his life and his families life. None of them will spend time in jail. It won't cause him to lose his current job. At worst a few people he knew might stop talking to him. Oh, and maybe a lawyer or two will ask to have a different judge when they are representing victims of sexual assault. Again, not what I would call life destroying events.

He repeatedly was in contempt of Congress and refused to answer simple yes or no questions with anything resembling a direct answer. He attacked one senator and asked her if she ever drank and blacked out as an answer to her asking him that question.

He was boorish, whiney, rude, evasive, and at times he just outright lied. Frankly, even if his judicial record showed that he was overwhelmingly liberal I would not consider him fit to sit on the Supreme Court.


That's all fine, but imagine he's innocent for a second.

And it's not fair for Ford either if they push him through and she's telling the truth, as I believe her to be.

This whole thing is a complete joke and it comes back to Trump and the explicit public approval of a notoriously lecherous doucebag mental midget being president.

That we, the rest of the world, have to deal with now.

We don't get to vote, but his stupidity affects our economy and lives too.
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Re: Buckle Up Buttercup

Postby Thumper » Fri Sep 28, 2018 6:23 pm

pumpkinpi wrote:
SciFi Chick wrote:
pumpkinpi wrote:I have not felt so disparaged since the morning I learned that Trump was elected, and I fell to the kitchen floor crying. I am crying again now. I have completely lost faith that the people we elect have any concern for what is best for our country. Only what advances their agenda.


We tried to tell you. I lost faith awhile ago. There is a movement happening on the local level. That is literally the only hope. Rebuild the country from the ground up and let D.C. burn.

Yup. We need to start paying more attention to our local elections. Don't just go vote every 4 years, vote every year!
Vote early! Vote often! :P
Seriously, I vote twice a year. We almost always have primaries, and in addition to voting for people who we will again vote for in the generals, there are often issues or emergency levies in the primary elections. I was on our board of elections site and you can see my voting history. It looks like I may have missed one primary election in the 20 years we've lived in this county.
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Re: Buckle Up Buttercup

Postby Rommie » Fri Sep 28, 2018 10:30 pm

squ1d wrote:This whole thing is a complete joke and it comes back to Trump and the explicit public approval of a notoriously lecherous doucebag mental midget being president.


I think this really plays into a key part of it. We know the president assaults women, as a tape was released of him admitting as much in the weeks before the 2016 election, and he still became president. Can you really say sexual assault is not ok now if you've already accepted that it didn't matter for Trump? (Like, not you personally, a general "you.")

This is of course, cynical me's view. But I think it's like how my libertarian dad can't accept climate change as happening, because then it would screw with his worldview of a problem governments need to be given power to solve.

That said, I was kinda shocked today when Trump called Ford's testimony compelling, and several senators said there should be an investigation and it looks like it's going to happen. I'm still trying to be all cynical so I'm not even more crushed when they vote for him anyway, but that was a nice twist by the writers of this season.
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Re: Buckle Up Buttercup

Postby SciFi Chick » Fri Sep 28, 2018 11:02 pm

Rommie wrote:
squ1d wrote:This whole thing is a complete joke and it comes back to Trump and the explicit public approval of a notoriously lecherous doucebag mental midget being president.


I think this really plays into a key part of it. We know the president assaults women, as a tape was released of him admitting as much in the weeks before the 2016 election, and he still became president. Can you really say sexual assault is not ok now if you've already accepted that it didn't matter for Trump? (Like, not you personally, a general "you.")



No. He doesn't assault women. His exact words were that they let you. That's not assault. I don't know if you've ever been to Hollywood or D.C., but there are women going after powerful men all the time. And they will let them do whatever they want.

I'm not saying he has never assaulted women, but he certainly didn't confess to it. Thus, no need to be shocked that he found her testimony compelling. :)
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Re: Buckle Up Buttercup

Postby SciFiFisher » Fri Sep 28, 2018 11:57 pm

SciFi Chick wrote:
Rommie wrote:
squ1d wrote:This whole thing is a complete joke and it comes back to Trump and the explicit public approval of a notoriously lecherous doucebag mental midget being president.


I think this really plays into a key part of it. We know the president assaults women, as a tape was released of him admitting as much in the weeks before the 2016 election, and he still became president. Can you really say sexual assault is not ok now if you've already accepted that it didn't matter for Trump? (Like, not you personally, a general "you.")



No. He doesn't assault women. His exact words were that they let you. That's not assault. I don't know if you've ever been to Hollywood or D.C., but there are women going after powerful men all the time. And they will let them do whatever they want.

I'm not saying he has never assaulted women, but he certainly didn't confess to it. Thus, no need to be shocked that he found her testimony compelling. :)


There are at least 19 women who have accused Trump of sexual misconduct including sexual assault. As far as I am concerned the Hollywood Access tapes were a confession. One of his ex-wives reported that he severely physically raped her to punish her. And she kept telling that story until his goons shut her down.

And the list included in the story I linked to doesn't even mention Stormy Daniels, the Playboy bunny, or god knows who else.
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Re: Buckle Up Buttercup

Postby SciFi Chick » Sat Sep 29, 2018 12:27 am

SciFiFisher wrote:
SciFi Chick wrote:
Rommie wrote:
squ1d wrote:This whole thing is a complete joke and it comes back to Trump and the explicit public approval of a notoriously lecherous doucebag mental midget being president.


I think this really plays into a key part of it. We know the president assaults women, as a tape was released of him admitting as much in the weeks before the 2016 election, and he still became president. Can you really say sexual assault is not ok now if you've already accepted that it didn't matter for Trump? (Like, not you personally, a general "you.")



No. He doesn't assault women. His exact words were that they let you. That's not assault. I don't know if you've ever been to Hollywood or D.C., but there are women going after powerful men all the time. And they will let them do whatever they want.

I'm not saying he has never assaulted women, but he certainly didn't confess to it. Thus, no need to be shocked that he found her testimony compelling. :)


There are at least 19 women who have accused Trump of sexual misconduct including sexual assault. As far as I am concerned the Hollywood Access tapes were a confession. One of his ex-wives reported that he severely physically raped her to punish her. And she kept telling that story until his goons shut her down.

And the list included in the story I linked to doesn't even mention Stormy Daniels, the Playboy bunny, or god knows who else.


Nope. Sorry. You're conflating things. You are probably correct about him sexually assaulting women, but he did not admit to it. He just didn't. If he had, he'd have been arrested. it's two entirely separate subjects. It would be nice if criminals acted like they do on Criminal Intent. But they just don't. And neither did he.
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Re: Buckle Up Buttercup

Postby SciFi Chick » Sat Sep 29, 2018 12:28 am

P.S. - if you want to use that level of evidence, than I know you'll agree that Bill Clinton is just as bad.
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Re: Buckle Up Buttercup

Postby SciFiFisher » Sat Sep 29, 2018 4:48 pm

SciFi Chick wrote:
SciFiFisher wrote:
SciFi Chick wrote:
Rommie wrote:
squ1d wrote:This whole thing is a complete joke and it comes back to Trump and the explicit public approval of a notoriously lecherous doucebag mental midget being president.


I think this really plays into a key part of it. We know the president assaults women, as a tape was released of him admitting as much in the weeks before the 2016 election, and he still became president. Can you really say sexual assault is not ok now if you've already accepted that it didn't matter for Trump? (Like, not you personally, a general "you.")



No. He doesn't assault women. His exact words were that they let you. That's not assault. I don't know if you've ever been to Hollywood or D.C., but there are women going after powerful men all the time. And they will let them do whatever they want.

I'm not saying he has never assaulted women, but he certainly didn't confess to it. Thus, no need to be shocked that he found her testimony compelling. :)


There are at least 19 women who have accused Trump of sexual misconduct including sexual assault. As far as I am concerned the Hollywood Access tapes were a confession. One of his ex-wives reported that he severely physically raped her to punish her. And she kept telling that story until his goons shut her down.

And the list included in the story I linked to doesn't even mention Stormy Daniels, the Playboy bunny, or god knows who else.


Nope. Sorry. You're conflating things. You are probably correct about him sexually assaulting women, but he did not admit to it. He just didn't. If he had, he'd have been arrested. it's two entirely separate subjects. It would be nice if criminals acted like they do on Criminal Intent. But they just don't. And neither did he.


I disagree. His actions combined with his words are sufficient IMO to be an admission of behavior that includes sexual assaulting women. I don't need a level of proof that only God can provide or that is "Beyond a Reasonable Doubt".
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Re: Buckle Up Buttercup

Postby SciFi Chick » Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:25 pm

SciFiFisher wrote:
SciFi Chick wrote:
SciFiFisher wrote:
SciFi Chick wrote:
Rommie wrote:
squ1d wrote:This whole thing is a complete joke and it comes back to Trump and the explicit public approval of a notoriously lecherous doucebag mental midget being president.


I think this really plays into a key part of it. We know the president assaults women, as a tape was released of him admitting as much in the weeks before the 2016 election, and he still became president. Can you really say sexual assault is not ok now if you've already accepted that it didn't matter for Trump? (Like, not you personally, a general "you.")



No. He doesn't assault women. His exact words were that they let you. That's not assault. I don't know if you've ever been to Hollywood or D.C., but there are women going after powerful men all the time. And they will let them do whatever they want.

I'm not saying he has never assaulted women, but he certainly didn't confess to it. Thus, no need to be shocked that he found her testimony compelling. :)


There are at least 19 women who have accused Trump of sexual misconduct including sexual assault. As far as I am concerned the Hollywood Access tapes were a confession. One of his ex-wives reported that he severely physically raped her to punish her. And she kept telling that story until his goons shut her down.

And the list included in the story I linked to doesn't even mention Stormy Daniels, the Playboy bunny, or god knows who else.


Nope. Sorry. You're conflating things. You are probably correct about him sexually assaulting women, but he did not admit to it. He just didn't. If he had, he'd have been arrested. it's two entirely separate subjects. It would be nice if criminals acted like they do on Criminal Intent. But they just don't. And neither did he.


I disagree. His actions combined with his words are sufficient IMO to be an admission of behavior that includes sexual assaulting women. I don't need a level of proof that only God can provide or that is "Beyond a Reasonable Doubt".


Well, you do when you're speaking legally, and it clearly didn't meet the qualifications for him to be arrested. That was my only point. He's an asshole just for trying to kiss a married woman. I'll just reiterate that he's an asshole, but I really hate diluting the meaning of words. #EnglishMajor

I'll also point out that I know at least one of the women who accused Clinton was lying, but I don't think all of them were.

I've been reflecting on this a LOT. I think we're at a place in society, where hopefully we're gonna redefine what is appropriate. From a statistical use of the word normal - sexual assault is and has been normal throughout history. Now, we're realizing, in the same way that we realized there should be such a thing as childhood and they aren't our little slaves, people shouldn't get touched if they didn't ask for it. But it really is a new thing. Even if it's obvious to those of us who have gone through it. And it affects little boys as much as women. I want to see things change. But I don't want to live in 1984. Does that make sense? Yeah, I'm derailing the thread, and perhaps I should start a new one, if anyone is interested in this conversation.
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Re: Buckle Up Buttercup

Postby SciFi Chick » Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:48 am

Perception is a fascinating thing. I'm finally catching up on the testimony. I don't believe her. I do believe him. And I know y'all will think I'm crazy, but as someone who's been both sexually assaulted and falsely accused of stuff, I just don't believe her and I do believe him. Will we ever know the truth? Doubtful.

But I will not stand by and say it's okay to denigrate him because he's emotional. Someone being falsely accused would be emotional. And that's always bugged me. Because I've gotten emotional every time I was falsely accused, and people seem to think emotion is some indicator of guilt. It's not.

Anyway, I really hate being Miss Dissenting Voice, but at least y'all know I'm honest. :D
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Re: Buckle Up Buttercup

Postby squ1d » Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:05 am

What are the FBI going to be able to achieve in 1 week?
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Re: Buckle Up Buttercup

Postby SciFi Chick » Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:15 am

Rommie wrote:Watched a little testimony. Wow, Dr. Ford is awesome. And frankly, I think the nation is incredibly lucky that she is a psychology professor. I don't think I would be half as credible under questioning, but with her expertise she can basically explain "well yeah this is how memories form and this is why I remember these details but not those ones."


I've watched her testimony now, and I think you would do WAY better. Just my personal opinion. I think this woman is a liar. Which I already stated above. I know you're not a liar. You would be far more credible as a result.
"Do not speak badly of yourself, for the warrior that is inside you hears your words and is lessened by them." -David Gemmel
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